note
btrott
Since [tilly] <a href=/index.pl?node_id=26929>asked</a>, or rather queried...
<code>
> I would like it if some of those people were
> to step forward and say in public what they
> said in private. Namely that I seem to be the
> latest lightning rod for stuff that has been
> going on for quite a while.
</code>
For what it's worth, I was one of the PM users
who /told him what I thought about the situation.
My opinions, etc. And while I'm generally loathe to
get involved in site politics, I think I'll "contribute"
here.<p>
I've been on PM since February of this year, and
while that doesn't by any means give me some sort
of superiority, it *does* give me perspective. Let's
get straight into it: my main problem with PerlMonks
is this very sense of community described in this
thread by [zzamboni]. The "community" of PerlMonks
presents itself as an accepting, helpful place
where new Perl users can ask anything, and
shouldn't feel ashamed about it. Sure, they should
do some work on their own, but they shouldn't feel
initimidated like they might posting on
comp.lang.perl.misc.<p>
This is a noble idea.<p>
The problem is, the "community" that I've seen on
PerlMonks doesn't reflect this ideal.<p>
That's too general a statement, of course. And yes,
I've definitely seen many PerlMonks regulars trying
their best to be helpful to newbies, rather than simply
cursing them out.<p>
But at the same time, I've seen a very disturbing
amount of nasty cliquey (not to mention borderline
misogynistic, but that's another issue) behavior.
Certain users--no names, mainly because I don't
know whether these users would like be used as
"examples"--have simply to make a post to have
it voted down.<p>
There is a very cliquey
element of PerlMonks that makes it a rather ugly
place to be, at times. This element is, I think, what
leads to things like [tilly]'s posts getting voted
down; it's a gang mentality that seems to be motivated
in part by the voting system. I don't know whether
it becames a game, or a contest, to see how low
a node's reputation can go. But it's just not fun
to watch.<p>
What's worse, many of the users who I've personally
seen ambushed--ambushed right out of the purported welcoming
party that is PerlMonks--have been very experienced
Perl users. Some have been battered about, have left for
a bit, but have come back. Which is wonderful. But others
haven't come back, and that's a real shame. Because
every time this "community" drives away a Perl user--any
user, but particularly one with a vast amount of
experience--make no mistake: it is a *loss* for the
community.<p>
Maybe it comes down to this: it is my opinion that a
user who regularly makes excellent, helpful posts on
Perl is far more important to this "community" than
someone who's always perfectly polite in his/her
responses.<p>
And it seems that this opinion just is basically at odds
with the PerlMonks philosophy, which seems to, in times of
conflict, value
the vague sense of "community" over helpful, interesting,
and, I'd even go so far to say, *correct*, posts. Which will
probably get this node dropped down to about -500 in
reputation. :)<p>
Now I don't want to give the impression that I don't like
PerlMonks. I truly enjoy the site,
and I've learned about Perl by helping other people learn.
Which is a very positive thing. Nor am I suggesting
that I have better ideas how to run the "community". I
don't. And I'm not saying that this is the only Perl group
out there blighted by egos. It isn't.<p>
It is, however, one of
the first I've seen that, despite these problems, goes so
far as to act as if it's a warm, accepting community. And
it isn't, always.<p>
Anyway, I hate writing this kind of stuff. So I'll stop.
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