Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
There's more than one way to do things
 
PerlMonks  

Demotions of monks

by syphilis (Archbishop)
on Jan 05, 2022 at 05:46 UTC ( #11140149=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Hi,

When and why were BrowserUk, Corion and ikegami demoted from Pope to Patriarch ?
I don't see any discussion about this drastic action ... though I guess it's possible that I'm simply looking in the wrong places.

Just curious.

Cheers,
Rob

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Demotions of monks
by eyepopslikeamosquito (Bishop) on Jan 05, 2022 at 08:08 UTC

    Yes, it is quite the mystery! At least I couldn't find anything. That won't stop me speculating though. :)

    Searching indicates the (now dormant) Petruchio was the driving force behind changing the Perl Monks levels:

    As you can see, all 28 of Petruchio's levels of 2005 remain intact, with just one minor tweak, Petruchio's level 28 (Pope, 100,000+) being split into two:

    • Level 28, Patriarch (100,000+)
    • Level 29, His Eminence (1,000,000+)

    Why? I have no idea, but after examining the early history of the Perl Monks experience system, I cannot restrain myself from speculating. It seems that vroom gave himself a gift of one million XP as a reward for founding this site (to balance the books, Perl Monk antivroom was created with an XP in excess of minus one million! :).

    So, and this is just a guess, perhaps the "His Eminence" level of 1,000,000+ XP was created for vroom, and vroom alone, designed to be unreachable by other monks ... though it seems we now need more (attainable) 100,000+ levels given we have three monks above 100,000 XP with nothing more to realistically strive for.

Re: Demotions of monks
by erzuuli (Cannon) on Jan 05, 2022 at 10:35 UTC

    LanX is correct. I simply renamed the level. No demotions; I changed neither the XP requirement for the level, nor the XP of any monk. I also created the new level just for vroom. I feel it's appropriate, given that the others earned their rank by playing the XP game, whereas he did not.

      I simply renamed the level

      That you renamed it to a term whose meaning is female-exclusive is, I think, the most interesting aspect of that change.

      Cheers,
      Rob

        fyi, "pope" means "father", so...

        Parriarch might be less specific, although more obscure.


        Dave

        It's ok, none of them are female.
        > renamed it to a term whose meaning is female-exclusive is

        Wat is she talking is???

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        update

        confusing patriarch with matriarch?

      In my opinion this was an ill-advised change for the worse. Please go back to Pope.


      The way forward always starts with a minimal test.

        I'm open to hearing your arguments. To be clear: "it's worse" isn't an argument.

Re: Demotions of monks
by LanX (Sage) on Jan 05, 2022 at 09:33 UTC
    Some weeks ago, jdporter discussed it in the CB.

    Reasoning was something like: a pope should be singular (IIRC).

    And it's not a demotion, a pope is a patriarch. I can name at least two churches░ which call their patriarch "pope".

    updates

    ░) The lesser known one residing in Cairo/Egypt.

    ▓) A third one - even lesser known - residing in Alexandria/Egypt.

      > a pope should be singular..

      ..it is singular that we have two of them

      L*

      There are no rules, there are no thumbs..
      Reinvent the wheel, then learn The Wheel; may be one day you reinvent one of THE WHEELS.
Re: Demotions of monks
by kcott (Bishop) on Jan 05, 2022 at 19:21 UTC

    G'day Rob,

    "I don't see any discussion ..."

    Nor do I. There should be an entry in "Tidings".

    When I first noticed this, I did find a minor text change, without explanation, in "Voting/Experience System"; compare that with the comprehensive explanation of the last change in "A Level Playing Field".

    — Ken

Re: Demotions of monks
by Fletch (Bishop) on Jan 05, 2022 at 16:00 UTC

    Fake internet points are fake. What's in a name? Dude, where's my car? This is not my beautiful house.

    At any rate . . . meh. Same as it ever was. Obligatory: Patience Monty. Climb the ladder.

    The cake is a lie.
    The cake is a lie.
    The cake is a lie.

Re: Demotions of monks
by erzuuli (Cannon) on Jan 05, 2022 at 20:59 UTC

    As with many changes on the site, this one should be considered "experimental" or "provisional". Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

    I'm soliciting opinions. My own is that "pope" is both too singular (very unique?) in that the Catholic Church only has one pope (except under extremely extraordinary circumstances), and too specific to one particular religious sect. "Patriarch", on the other hand, is more generic, and is used by a variety of sects: there can be, and in fact are, numerous patriarchs in the world at any given time.

    Perhaps we should consider a term from other monastic traditions, such as... lama?

      I like that vroom's one million XP level is unattainable for ordinary mortals and suggest it be left alone in the interests of preserving the quirky history and tradition of Perl Monks.

      Given that three monks have already scaled the rarefied 100,000 XP plateau, we should ensure their awe-inspiring XP journey remains captivating -- both for them and their many enthralled fans. The obvious way to do that is to simply add a few more levels, something like:

      LevelXP# Of VotesTitle
      2810000054Patriarch
      2915000056?
      3020000058?
      3125000060?
      321000000100His Eminence

      I'm not that interested in the titles given to these new super-elite levels. Suggestions welcome, especially from those with a passion for religious history and tradition.

        And then upon reaching these top levels the newly leveled monk will have to seek out one of the prior holders and defeat them in single combat without using magic weapo . . . wait, are we still doing 1st edition?

        Slightly (very) more seriously, maybe something like go rankings and numbered ranks (1 Patriarch to 9 Patriarch). Or playing off the lama suggestion, different species of genus Camelidae. Combining the two eventually one could aspire to the revered title of 9 Alpaca.

        The cake is a lie.
        The cake is a lie.
        The cake is a lie.

        Til level 22 Bishop ΔXP was constantly growing, then it stalled at 10000.

        From there on climbing ranks didn't become harder anymore.▓

        see Levels of Monks for details

        Readjusting those deltas to constant grow would give you your extra levels in a natural way, without needing to invent new ranks.░

        This would actually mean a demotion, now for real.│

        But I wouldn't care.

        Tho I think the monastery has more urgent problems...

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        ░) Here a rough sketch. The deltas would of course need to be properly rounded to steps modulo 1000

        DB<4> say join ':', $_,$d*=1.25,$xp+=$d for 23..28 23:12500:52500 24:15625:68125 25:19531.25:87656.25 26:24414.0625:112070.3125 27:30517.578125:142587.890625 28:38146.97265625:180734.86328125

        as you can see, even BUK would need to reincarnate to reach (28) patriarch again ;-)

        ▓) well it was far easier in the old times to gather XP, but that's not the point here

        │) loss of rank would only happen to less than 20 monks actually

        No one suggested that vroom's XP be messed with...

        Suggestions welcome, especially from those with a passion for religious history and tradition

        I don't pay a lot of attention to religious history and tradition.
        But, if there's any interest in gender-balance, I would suggest the inclusion of one or more of "Nun", "Sister" and "Mother Superior".
        Has none of this come up before ??

        Cheers,
        Rob

        What's the point? We have only three patriarchs/popes at this point, with no more any time in the foreseeable future.

Re: Demotions of monks
by Gavin (Bishop) on Jan 05, 2022 at 06:49 UTC

    "I don't see any discussion"

    Nor do I. One would have thought there would have been some discussion before such a move was made.

Re: Demotions of monks
by Discipulus (Abbot) on Jan 05, 2022 at 08:54 UTC
    hello syphilis,

    it happened long time ago, in 1054

    L*

    PS No; I was worng: in January 2021 we still had popes

    There are no rules, there are no thumbs..
    Reinvent the wheel, then learn The Wheel; may be one day you reinvent one of THE WHEELS.
Re: Demotions of monks
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 05, 2022 at 16:31 UTC
    BTW, since you're SO politically correct and "inclusive" (LOL)... stating that a Pope becoming a Patriarch is a "demotion" is quite offensive (to some). It is just Latin supremacism, and also a heresy. You must be punished for your thoughtcrime.

Log In?
Username:
Password:

What's my password?
Create A New User
Domain Nodelet?
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: monkdiscuss [id://11140149]
Front-paged by Corion
help
Chatterbox?
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others cooling their heels in the Monastery: (4)
As of 2022-05-25 20:45 GMT
Sections?
Information?
Find Nodes?
Leftovers?
    Voting Booth?
    Do you prefer to work remotely?



    Results (90 votes). Check out past polls.

    Notices?