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Re^2: Help to have real Perl's advantage

by eyepopslikeamosquito (Bishop)
on Jan 09, 2022 at 04:26 UTC ( #11140296=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Help to have real Perl's advantage
in thread Help to have real Perl's advantage

I too assumed that English is not the OP's native language.

Given the only link provided in the borderline incomprehensible post was Hacker News: Why is Perl so dwarfed in data science by Python?, I assumed the OP either worked in the Scientific or Computing field, or both, or was at least a keen amateur.

Here's the riddle though. English has become the dominant language in both Science and Computing nowadays. So much so, that I can't imagine a present-day professional scientist or software engineer surviving without a decent command of English -- interested to hear from LanX or other European monks on this topic BTW.

Moreover, I was recently able to wind up both Karl and LanX in German -- despite being perhaps the worst German speaker in the world -- simply by using an online English to German translator.

So I don't have a lot of sympathy for the appalling quality of the OP's post and am at a loss as to how it might be plausibly explained. Sadly, it's looking increasingly likely we'll never hear from him/her again. :(

Update: I further noticed the OP claimed to have "read then concluded from" the long Hacker News thread cited above (which is all in English). BTW, I'm old enough to have been flabbergasted by the rapid rise of English as a lingua franca during the past fifty years -- completely different to when I was a boy! :)

  • Comment on Re^2: Help to have real Perl's advantage

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Re^3: Help to have real Perl's advantage
by choroba (Archbishop) on Jan 09, 2022 at 22:04 UTC
    Machine translators usually work well for resource rich languages (German being one of them). Smaller or minority languages are usually much less covered and their speakers may have more problems. Also, there are some sectors of science that don't use English so heavily (imagine a linguist interested in a minority language, or a historian focused on a territory with no English influence).

    Nevertheless, to get my MA, I needed to read a scientific book in English, and it was the previous millennium, and I guess the requirements are even more demanding nowadays.

    map{substr$_->[0],$_->[1]||0,1}[\*||{},3],[[]],[ref qr-1,-,-1],[{}],[sub{}^*ARGV,3]
Re^3: Help to have real Perl's advantage -- English and Samplish
by Discipulus (Abbot) on Jan 11, 2022 at 13:19 UTC
    Hello eyepopslikeamosquito

    > Here's the riddle though. English has become the dominant language in both Science and Computing nowadays. So much so, that I can't imagine a present-day professional scientist or software engineer surviving without a decent command of English -- interested to hear from LanX or other European monks on this topic BTW.

    I qualify as European Monk being Eatalian :) yes English skill is a must-have: when my son was following the programming course at university (a Python course..) I told him: "look at this book: it will be the last one you read in Eatalian".

    Infact I cannot even imagine a system or network administrator or a programmer ignorning English.. even if I recall LanX asking for perl books in German..

    Even if I never studied English, nowadays I dont remeber if I have read a tech paper in English or in Italian.

    The whole story could have been different if Olivetti had succes, but, the history is written by winners :) so now everything in the tech world is in English.

    The real trouble is that English is a heap of exceptions (at least as seen from a Latin native point of view) and has an incredible proliferation of words because it is spoken in so many countries. This will slow the progress of AI developping because it must to be Arificial Very Intelligent to understand English.

    So English will probably transform into something different, as I say, into Samplish, a language that finally can be teached to everyone if you thinked and buyed a Samplish course; the mouton will be treated as pecora and banned: only sheep will survive.

    Another side of the story is interesting to tell: how tech English modifies other languages.

    French monks will pardon me but I always laugh to ordinateur and fichier instead of computer and file: the french resistence is worth as the Maginot Line.

    In the opposite side we can look at Eatalian, that always used to be a sponge language: we already have implementare from to implement (and it ironically comes from Latin implere ) as new verb and many others like restartare from to restart and triggherato from triggered and so on.. Even worst: our managers studied on English books, so they use customer satisfaction instead of the Eatalian form and everything they can spit: once I counted 14 English words and phrases in a 4 lines email from a collegue.. go figure.. I replied using as many Latin mottos I was able to fit in the response. Yes I'm evil sometimes :)

    So in your sci-fata future :) we will speak Samplish, Shakespeare resting in peace.

    L*

    There are no rules, there are no thumbs..
    Reinvent the wheel, then learn The Wheel; may be one day you reinvent one of THE WHEELS.
Re^3: Help to have real Perl's advantage
by LanX (Sage) on Jan 10, 2022 at 01:49 UTC
    > interested to hear from LanX

    I also sometimes use words I donít fully understand in an effort to sound photosynthesis.

      That's a perfectly cromulent way to embiggen your vocabulations. Heck, you might even get to where you could describe a turbo encabulator without having to look anything up.

      The cake is a lie.
      The cake is a lie.
      The cake is a lie.

        > turbo encabulator

        Sounds like perldoc... 🤷🏻‍♂️

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery

Re^3: Help to have real Perl's advantage
by cavac (Priest) on Jan 11, 2022 at 11:23 UTC

    So much so, that I can't imagine a present-day professional scientist or software engineer surviving without a decent command of English -- interested to hear from LanX or other European monks on this topic BTW.

    I'm from Austria, so my native language is german*. Most of my software is developed in English and then translated into german when needed. Most of the bigger projects have integrated multi-language support. I reasoned that in case we need to support some foreign language, it would probably be easier to find someone that can speak that language and english that it is to find someone who can do the translation from german to the foreign language.

    You can find people who can speak english in nearly every country. The german language is much harder to learn, and it fell out of favour in many regions of the world. The fact that two World Wars were started by people speaking german also didn't seem to help. So instead of eating Sauerkraut, the U.S. is now eating liberty cabbage.

    * Well, technically, it's "Austria german". We have our own official dictionary and quite a few regional words and phrases.

    perl -e 'use Crypt::Digest::SHA256 qw[sha256_hex]; print substr(sha256_hex("the Answer To Life, The Universe And Everything"), 6, 2), "\n";'

        There are other significant differences between Germany and Austria, like the order in which to do things.

        For example, Germany asks its people about the infrastructure needs, ignores the result and then takes ages to build an airport poorly. On the other hand, Austria prefers to build stuff like a billion Euro nuclear power station and only when it's finished have a public vote that decides against turning it on.

        perl -e 'use Crypt::Digest::SHA256 qw[sha256_hex]; print substr(sha256_hex("the Answer To Life, The Universe And Everything"), 6, 2), "\n";'
      > The fact that two World Wars were started by people speaking german

      Isn't it rather that they were lost? ;-)

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        Well, killing a good percentage of your own people for their believes doesn't go down well with the rest of humanity. Plus, invading Russia in Winter without proper winter clothing makes one look like a complete idiot.

        Things like these, plus, you know "being the enemy" and "starting a global conflict the likes of which the world has never seen before" won't make you win any popularity contest. And if most of the world doesn't like you, they are probably not going to embrace your culture and your language.

        That's actually something that had a huge influence in the United States from the beginning of the first World War. There was a relatively large german speaking population in the U.S. in the early 1900's. WW1 and WW2 pretty much stamped that out. WW1 was also used as an argument for Prohibition (many of the large beer brewers were of german origin and held their business meetings in german).

        perl -e 'use Crypt::Digest::SHA256 qw[sha256_hex]; print substr(sha256_hex("the Answer To Life, The Universe And Everything"), 6, 2), "\n";'

        ok ok "started and lost" then :) hehe. Although I feel to say that it has nothing to do with speaking or being german (or being austrian) as the historical, political and economical circumstances have been documented widely already. Additionally, it seems that 1900-1950 has seen a statistical anomaly which is now slowly but steadily being fixed with the english-speaking wars (and losses) prevailing.

        1min update: I don't care at all if I have to speak english or my "mother tongue" in public places neither if my variables are foreign-named (english expletives suit me fine). I have never added a comment in my code other than in english and I always make sure i make fun of all those who comment in their native languages polluting their code with unicode (ok other than because they are forced work-wise). That said, I believe that political correctness of names (of programs, projects, variables) relating only to the english language should be abandoned (e.g. piddle or gimp). And I truly condon Mitsubishi's choice of "Pajero" (warning, vulgar dictionary entry) to name one of their most popular 4x4 models, taking a word with a derogatory meaning in one language and elevating it to the pinnacle of four-wheel mechanical excellence. With a pinch of salt please.

        bw, bliako

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