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GoodBye :-)

by mt2k (Hermit)
on Jan 03, 2003 at 10:17 UTC ( #223996=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

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Re: GoodBye :-)
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 03, 2003 at 15:20 UTC

    I don't intend for this to be a flame. And it's not a personality attack. I don't recall ever having good or bad feeling for mt2k.

    But I find this post, in and of itself to be childish. "Look at me! I'm leaving!" You want to leave, leave. Do you want people to stop you? Do you want people to lament your absense? If that the case, it'll never happen - because the way you left is not noble.

    Many of us want tilly back. He was forced to make a difficult decision and leave. He said a public good-bye so that others could learn from what befell him. Many of us want Abigail back. He was embarrassed into leaving, his good-bye taught us a lesson. I remember that jcwren left for a time because certain members of the community hacked and messed up the free service he provides for us. There's many lessons there. Too many to summarize.

    When I left this site, I didn't bother to say good-bye. I just left. And because there was no lesson to be learned, I kept my mouth shut, updated my homenode "Location" to "Gone" so no one would expect any activity from me and simply LEFT. And I didn't bother looking at the site for weeks - and then, when I did, it was only to do research.

    One could argue that your good-bye could teach us a lesson about growing as an individual. I could equally argue that it shows us how little you've grown. To me, it is an immature and selfish act to draw attention to yourself simply for the sake of drawing attention to yourself. To me, it is an immature and selfish act to erase a piece of important history from this site.

    And a part of me believes that you're watching this thread as Anonymous Monk. And if that's the case, I hope that what you will learn from my post is that being missed is earned, and not forced. If you had stayed longer, I'm sure you would have earned that priviledge.

    PS. I usually only post and visit for technical reasons (and before you ask, yes, I donate regularly). And for the record when I left, I didn't hang around to see if I was missed. I know I wasn't, because I never earned that priviledge.

        77 weeks ago?... Or do you mean Abigail-II? I was wondering if that was the same person or a tribute to Abigail. Thank you for clearing that up!

Re: GoodBye :-)
by grinder (Bishop) on Jan 03, 2003 at 11:15 UTC

    So it seems that after pondering his role on Perlmonks, mt2k has decided to leave with a bang. So be it. PodMaster thinks we should delete this node. I say keep it, if this is to be his swansong, a node more or less doesn't make much change in the grand scheme of things.

    There is the question of his nodes. In case you haven't looked, he has taken any node that is not frozen after being submitted (such as a SoPW), and deleted the title and contents. Some people are wondering whether these should be restored. I say let them go. There is blakem's off-site search engine-friendly archive of the site. The nodes are probably stored there (I haven't actually checked to see whether this is the case or not).

    Online community historians may draw a parallel with Blair Newman, a long-time denizen of The Well, who deleted all his posts and then killed himself (one, two). I trust mt2k will not do anything so foolish, after all, he did leave a forwarding address.

    Where ever you go, maleteen2000, have fun.

    <update>Interesting... I didn't realise this was the second time that mt2k has said Goodbye!...</update>

    print@_{sort keys %_},$/if%_=split//,'= & *a?b:e\f/h^h!j+n,o@o;r$s-t%t#u'
Re: GoodBye :-)
by talexb (Chancellor) on Jan 03, 2003 at 15:46 UTC

    Sorry to see anyone leave, but that's the way life goes.

    A few years back, I was heavily involved in the Canopus forum on CompuServe, where one of the things we debated was the old OS/2 versus Windows 95 topic. We had a lot of fun with the topic, before and after Windows 95 came out. I just discovered recently that there is an archive of those messages, and boy, do I come off like a loudmouth in some of them. But it is undeniably me. (If anyone's interested, the messages are at this location -- look for "T. Alex Beamish" or "73067,1500".)

    This behaviour is not unlike cutting up old pictures of yourself when you were a pudgy baby or an awkward pre-teen .. maybe that was a difficult part of your life, but that was you, whether or not the pictures exist.

    Right now Perl is a large part of my career :) and Perl Monks is a terrific resource for Perl. So even though I've made a few goofs (my foray into XOR encryption is the best example), on average I'd say I've learned a lot, answered a few questions well, improved my craft, made a few friends, and perhaps even helped a few people.

    To me that's very cool, and it's not something I'd willingly leave.

    But to each, his or her own choice. Go in peace.

    --t. alex
    Life is short: get busy!
Re: GoodBye :-)
by Sifmole (Chaplain) on Jan 03, 2003 at 13:49 UTC
    You can't run from your past, you simply look silly and juvenile even trying.

    I heard a quote once that always moves me along.
    "The saddest day is the day you realize you are the best you will ever be."

    So I would hope that at a young age you look back at your postings from no so long ago and say "Whoa, what the heck what I thinking?!", because if you didn't you wouldn't have learned a thing. It is similar to looking back at your code just a year old and saying, "Way did I make that choice?!".

    I think this goodbye post was mostly looking for attention and hoping that the community would come begging you not to leave... There are a rare few that happened for, you aren't Tilly or Abigail, I am sorry. Stick around, keep growing, keep being embarressed by stuff you posted 6 months ago, and you just might become someone like that.

    Other than that, see ya its been real.

      So I would hope that at a young age you look back at your postings from no so long ago and say "Whoa, what the heck what I thinking?!

      Better yet, know what you were thinking at the time, and know objectively why your current actions are superior. Who knows, maybe you were right back then?

      I think this goodbye post was mostly looking for attention and hoping that the community would come begging you not to leave

      I don't think so, it seems more like he just realized it was time to move on. As for not being "Tilly or Abigail" well, that's just BS. The Perl community's (I hate that phrase) of elevating people to god-like status based on knowing regexes a little better, or posting frequently on a website (sometimes with less than helpful posts) is beyond sad. Take a careful look and you'll see that many people who you've never heard of contribute just as much (or more).

      This is not meant to single out Tilly or Abigail, who both contribute a lot, more as a response to "Perl culture's" (ugh) tendency to view prominent members.

        This is not exclusive to the Perl community. Every community/subculture has this tendency to idolize prominent members.

        Makeshifts last the longest.

Re: GoodBye :-)
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 03, 2003 at 12:07 UTC
    A stupid move? Maybe; who knows anymore?

    Hard to say. You have to ask yourself, could you be getting more out of the time you spend on this site? If the answer is yes, you should move on. This is obviously a lot more complex question than it first appears.

    3 years of being on the honor roll and then bam, grade 12, last year and what do I do? Drop out for the year.

    I think this is a very different issue. You may not learn much from school or enjoy it but, sadly, the current situation in most countries does place a lot of obstacles in your way if you don't have it. This is not to say that you necessarily need it, just that it is a very important choice and you should give it very careful consideration.

    Some people might see it as a way of seeing how much I've matured over the time I've been there.

    I've seen some very interesting and intelligent posts from you in the past. I also think other's can learn from even the posts that you deem "useless." That said, they are your content and you are free to delete them as you see fit.

    I could not stand having that kind of stuff exist: it's all so childish, useless, and void of content.

    Being smarter than you used to be is nothing to be ashamed of. Quite the opposite actually.

    I'm afraid to even look at the site right now, who knows what's being said about me

    There will always be people who criticize you. It's how you respond, both in action and in thought, that dictates what you will gain from it.

    Have a good one.

      Some nice thoughts.

      If you wish to address mt2k it would be better to reply directly to his journal on the site where it is posted.

      It is a meaningful gesture to talk to someone where he is.

        mt2k's homenode says:

        I'm still hanging around, just not in a way that you'll recognize (or so I hope).

        So I assumed he'd read this thread.

        Even if he didn't, it would still be worthwhile to reply. You know, stimulate discussion, collective increase in knowledge, etc.

        If you're suggesting I should have posted this in response to his journal, you're probably right. I was just too lazy to figure out how to 8^D.

Re: GoodBye :-)
by sauoq (Abbot) on Jan 04, 2003 at 10:14 UTC

    So you deleted all of your nodes that you could and said "too bad" (on your homenode) to the fact that there were some you couldn't delete? That's... well... spectacularly lame. Those nodes were gifts to the community. True, you had the ability to remove them. I'll even agree that you had the right to do it but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

    Perhaps you are right and the monastery is better off without you. Good bye and good luck out there in the real world. Just so you know though, I'm not alone in understanding that you are a real person. There are many of us who did not need to witness your virtual tantrum in order to remember that.

    Peace be with you.

    "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
(mt2k) Re: GoodBye :-)
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 05, 2003 at 00:50 UTC

    Hello all... I've come to realize that I didn't quite give details to what I'm doing, where I'm going, and perhaps most importantly, why I'm doing it. I decided I had to return one last time so I could explain a little bit.

    The first reason I came back to the site and this node was because of a suggestion from theorbtwo on my journal. He recommended that I read the replies to this post, which I have now done. I must say, I'm quite surprised that the node even exists. I suppose I believed that it would be almost immediately reaped and forgotten. I wasn't really counting on any replies to this whatsoever, it's how mixed up I was. It was one of those "nobody really cares" moments.

    I'd like to thank grinder, sauoq, gjb, talexb, those Anonymous Monk posts, and I think most of all tye. I think that in a way, I'm glad he took the time to restore the damage caused by my mass-scribbling (new term learned from reading grinder's suggestions). How long did it take anyway? I hope it wasn't too difficult of a task. I never spent the time to learn the backup system. Hopefully it only took a few SQL commands.

    As for the mass-scribbling, why did I do it? To tell the truth, I can't answer that question. It was a sudden, spur-of-the-moment decision that I made without really thinking much at all. It took a little bit of reflection for me to realize that it was an extremely selfish act. When I first started blanking out my nodes, I was only planning on doing the oldest of my posts... the really immature ones where all I was saying was how javascript worked, font colors worked, and the posts/replies that really had nothing to do with perl or the site from a discussion point of view. Then, for some unexplainable reason, I just kept on deleting, even the few posts I must admit I was quite proud of. Taking a harder look, I even realized that the past year or so have been better for me. I ceased posting the really childish stuff and began to reflect a little before I wrote a post or a reply. So I appologize for my selfishnish and my uncalled-for actions. Truly.

    grinder's reply also has an update that notes the fact that I've said 'goodbye' once before. Quite true. However, the first time around, it was because I didn't feel very welcomed as a part of the community, and it saddened/angered me enough to post that one, though it was obvious that it was a call for attention. After that post, I came crawling back because I realized that the resentment I felt centered on me was not that of the entire community. This time, I am leaving of my own accord, as I feel that I need time away from a place where it got to the point where all I could think of is what a disappointment I was. Do you know how embarassing it is to look back at my first posts here? And even after my first few, I still did not contribute in many ways around here. What I need now is time to think about things in more depth than I have been doing and try to figure out what I want to gain from life: yes, I'm talking about real life, where we work for a living, not where we jump on a computer and enter an unreal, virtual world.

    Taking it one step further, I realize why perlmonks makes me feel so discouraged. I really do not have a life to live outside of the internet. I've based so much of my life on computers: I've spent so much time on perlmonks and other places on the internet that I've been hiding from the real world for quite a long time. My life for the past while has consisted of working, eating, sleeping, and using the computer. I do not have a life outside of work and computers: I cannot list 3 people who I'd really call friends: all I have are online buddies and co-workers. Right now, there is nobody I could call and say "wanna go see a movie?". I've found my problem: I need to get a life away from work and computers. This is such a strong realization for me that I used <strong> tags :) lol, honestly though, I need to find some hobby other than programming and internet use. I don't collect anything, I don't build anything, I can't list 5 favorite movies, nor can I name many music artists upon hearing a song. And it doesn't help that I don't have any friends.

    So, I've found my problem, will I come back to perlmonks as mt2k? No. The first thing I need to do is find something that I can do and accomplish away from this annoyingly addictive computer. Once I can do that much and I actually have a life, then maybe I'll come around a visit a little. But even then, don't expect me to beg tye or vroom to unlock my account so I can continue on where I left off. If I ever do come back, I will be starting over, as I have wanted to do for the longest time. If the time comes, then I will create a new account and do things the way they should have been done the first time around. It might seem like a way of escaping the past, and perhaps it is. I can't really give an explanation right now, because I don't know where I'm going to go in the next little while. Will you know it's me if and when I come back? I don't know. It's not that I wouldn't want anybody to know who I am if/when I return here, it's simply because I'd like to be known as the kid that made it though in the end. I'm basically hoping that I'll make it a second chance where I get to start with a clean plate. On the other hand, if I come back, maybe I will adopt a new style of writing my posts so that nobody will have a clue that it's me. But to me, that just seems like trying to hide who I really am, and I'm not comfortable with that thought. Besides, I'm too much of a goof and would eventually give myself up accidentally :)

    If I ever do come back, I do hope I'll be welcome and not hated for the stupid things I've done. It's all about forgiveness, and I'm not sure as to whether or not I deserve to be given any more of that. In due time, I'll find out the answer to that one.

    So to clarify, I'm not leaving because of anybody on the site, nor because of the site itself. I've found almost nothing but encouragement here, even in the posts that may seem slightly hostile. It might even seem that sticking around might help because of the warmth of the people here, but I don't want to chance hindering my newly-found resolution.

    Also, in reply to one of the posts by Anonymous Monk, where the following was said:

    But I find this post, in and of itself to be childish. "Look at me! I'm leaving!" You want to leave, leave. Do you want people to stop you? Do you want people to lament your absense? If that the case, it'll never happen - because the way you left is not noble.
    It was quite a shock to me to read this, because it's not the way I intended it to be. I didn't mean to sound like "Look at me! I'm leaving. Pay attention to this!". For some strange reason, I assumed the reader would understand my situation and see it as a "Thanks for everything, but I need to leave for a while and get my life together." It seems as though grinder caught on to this one, but for the life of me I don't why why I expected everyone to understand. Just another misperception on my part.

    So to say it the right way and the way I intended it to be, I do thank all of you for your support and encouragement, and now I will depart for a while, hopefully to find myself. Perhaps we will meet again someday, whether soon or far from now, and at that time we'll be able to look back and laugh. It might be a month, 6 months, a year or more before I return, if I ever return at all. If I don't see you again, thank you for everything and I wish the best for both of us. And BTW, before you judge me, walk a mile in my shoes. Then at least you'll be a mile away and have my shoes before I can say anything :P

    /me goes off to commence a long and perilous journey, in hopes of discovering his true self and perhaps learn a thing or two about life on the way.

Re: GoodBye :-)
by theorbtwo (Prior) on Jan 04, 2003 at 04:51 UTC

    Since tye apparenly doesn't like getting credit for his hard work sometimes, I thought I'd note for the record that mt2k's nodes have been restored from backup.

    Warning: Unless otherwise stated, code is untested. Do not use without understanding. Code is posted in the hopes it is useful, but without warranty. All copyrights are relinquished into the public domain unless otherwise stated. I am not an angel. I am capable of error, and err on a fairly regular basis. If I made a mistake, please let me know (such as by replying to this node).

Re: GoodBye :-)
by gjb (Vicar) on Jan 03, 2003 at 13:40 UTC

    It doesn't matter when you flinch when looking into a mirror, the important part is that next time you do it, you like what you see a little better. Mirrors are our best and truest friends if we want to improve ourselves.

    Anyway, good luck to you, -gjb-

Re: GoodBye :-)
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 03, 2003 at 11:37 UTC
    The Road goes ever on and on
        Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
        And I must follow, if I can,
    Pursuing it with eager feet,
        Until it joins some larger way
    Where many paths and errands meet.
        And whither then? I cannot say.

    Best of luck with your future endeavors, wherever they may lead you.

Re: GoodBye :-)
by mdillon (Priest) on Jan 05, 2003 at 09:16 UTC
    Hasta la vista, mt2k.

    In my opinion, you came back a better, more mature monk after your first departure many months ago (ahem, maleteen2000). Let's hope you return for a third round after a similar ripening period this time.

    P.S. the node-blanking is pretty lame.

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