++ To you---someone else who knows who IKB was! Did you know that his father was a good friend of Charles Babbage and was the person who recommended Joseph Clement? These last two have always been on my list of 'greats'. As to what I call myself, well when I bother I just say programmer, it is what I do, and more to the point, what I want to do. As for software engineers, perhaps when programming stops being an art, then we can have engineers.