Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Welcome to the Monastery

Ninja style coding... is it bad?

by thaigrrl (Monk)
on Sep 03, 2004 at 22:34 UTC ( #388433=perlmeditation: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

As I have been working on an ongoing project that was written primarily by a whole different group of people, I've realized that I've been what I call "Ninja coding" for quite some time now.

Define Ninja coding you say?

Ninja coding:
When one opens an existing file written by a different party, puts in a fix that matches the style of the initial author with no traces left behind (except cvs knows :) )

So, I go in make my fix, and voila, everything looks smooth as if I weren't even there. All fine and good for the time being. What happens later after repetitive ninja attacks, I find that I'm becoming more and more assimilated by this code. This is all fine and good, that is, unless the code is BAD CODE!! Then I find myself coding like that coder does without even knowing.

Ninja coding can be good in some cases. It doesn't upset the other authors, and keeps the style flowing throughout the page. You know exactly where things will be once "learning" the style well. Like for example if a programmer decides to always declare his sql outside of the sub routine. You know that the sql will be right above it. OR if a programmer never uses parentheses on his method called.. $self->execute vs. $self->execute().

I'm a ninja coder. I admit it. But in the process, I'm afraid that I've lost my true self. How do I really code?

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by kvale (Monsignor) on Sep 03, 2004 at 23:14 UTC
    I think maintaining the coding style (indentation, brace styles, etc.) is perfectly reasonable, as it helps legibilty by not taking the programmer 'outside' the content to consider a new style.

    Maintaining the semantic content in the face of badly written code is a more tricky issue. When I am tasked with fixing buggy code that is badly written, I usually consider how much time I have available and the amount of code that needs to be changed. Refactoring ugly code is an almost palpable desire among good programmers, but that has to be balanced against time pressures and the introduction of new bugs in the refactored code.

    If time is short and the change is a line or two, it is probably just best to make the change fit the surrounding code, along with a comment as to what was changed, and a corresponding test in the suite.

    If there is more time available and/or the bug is more fundamental, I'll try to refactor the subroutine(s) that contain the bug. If this is a personal project with no time limit, I might refactor the whole program :)

    No matter what the size of the change, it is good to add a test to check your work; larger refactorings may need multiple tests.

    I'd check with the boss or owner of the code as well. I once joined a physics lab as a new grad student and the lab space was a complete disaster. While waiting for parts for my expt, I organized and cleaned up the place. My advisor took one look, and had a full-blown conniption: eyes popping, orange smoke coming out of his ears, the works. I had messed up his organization. We spent hours getting it back to it's original state.


Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by erikharrison (Deacon) on Sep 03, 2004 at 23:25 UTC

    I had to write a little blog application to integrate into our companies flagship site. All new work is done in PHP (that's a seperate rant), but prior to me being hired, they had one Perl programmer. Since she did all the initial work for the site, all the old code is in Perl.

    For various reasons, mostly having to do with her maintaining the code, I was asked to write this little blog tool in Perl. Looking back over some of my code, I was appalled at how I had immitated much of the code that my program had to interact with. Globals everywhere, using a crappy internal library for parsing cookies, stuff I never do in fresh code. This was made worse by the fact that the senior Perl programmer doesn't write this way either anymore. Just the core (and therefore oldest) parts of the code are written that way.

    I spent a week refactoring and rewriting the codebase, and created a list of things I would not fall into the habit of doing as I added new features. It was hard initially. For example, I need to require some definitions in from elsewhere, but this pisses strict and warnings off horribly. I had to wrap the include in some protective declarations, and then push the setup code into a subroutine to get the illegible mess out of my eyes. But being able to rely on compiler warnings has already saved my butt a few times since.

    The key I think is to do what I did. Keep style imitation (and bug imitation) in old code. Don't be too subtle - when the original programmer does something dumb COMMENT IT! You'll be less likely to imitate it later, and more likely to find the subtle bugs that it creates. Keep a list of common mistakes and look it back over when transitioning between the two. Talk to the original programmers and see if their own style has changed enough to make it viable for you to correct some mistake in their old code.


    Light a man a fire, he's warm for a day. Catch a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchet

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by biosysadmin (Deacon) on Sep 04, 2004 at 02:44 UTC

    Upon first reading this, I wondered how I would feel if someone found a mistake and surreptitiously fixed it without notifying me. Ninja coding seems to have a set of prior assumptions that I don't know if I agree with. Here's what comes to mind:

    • I am truly fixing these people's buggy code and not inserting a sneaky bug into it.
    • It's better to fix code behind the backs of my coworkers rather than talk to them about a possible error that I have found in their code.
    How would you feel if a CPAN maintainer liked your module a great deal, but found a small bug in it and changed it on the master repository without telling you? To many people coding is their craft and they are interested in producing good quality code. By not communicating possible errors to people you are essential stating "I, being the great coder in our group, have found several errors in your code. Instead of notifying you of these errors so you can be educated, it's easier for me to just fix things rather than tell you about them."

    Depending on your situation, this might be a reasonable thing to do. If you're the lead programmer on a time-critical project, this may even be a good thing (at least in the short term). But I believe that fostering a programming environment of creativity in which people can learn from each other is good for everyone's coding, so in the long term you may want to rethink your ninja ways. By practicing better communication, you may teach your peers a thing or two (and perhaps even learn something yourself). If you demonstrate best practices of coding to those around you their "bad" coding style may be vanquished by your "good" coding style in time.

    It's interesting that you're being assimilated by the bad code that you are fixing. I would say that one key to learning good style is communication, by reading books, talking to people, and understanding the concepts behind various styles of coding. Perhaps if you communicate better you would be a Zen Master, rather than a Ninja. :)

      With large projects working on each others code is essential. Programmers cant just drop their current project to fix a few minor thinkos in their code that are causing someone else problems. Programmers leave (and then become the instant cause of every bug and failure in the system :-) programmers drop projects, etc. While sometimes it rankles when it happens to your own code because you would have fixed it differently/better the fact is its almost inevitable with large code bases.

      A good example is PM. The code base here has had many authors, we cant stand around waiting for those authors to show up to fix bugs or extend the code. If they are here and can do the work needed then fine, otherwise the work must get done.


        First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
        -- Gandhi

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by ccn (Vicar) on Sep 03, 2004 at 23:04 UTC

    As an extreme example imagine that other author is you a year ago. Now you looking at your old code and what?.. I think "Ninja coding" is bad in that case. On the othe hand it can be a good thing if another's code is good but different (e.g. Abigail's style of '=>')

      Depends. Not everyone is fond of Abigail's style either — it's quirky and occasionally fun, but it's not gospel just because of who he is. On numerous occasions, tye has bemoaned the fact that we can't make the fat comma DWIM better than it already does because people do all kinds of quirky stuff with it; I like his argument.

      Other aspects of a coding style are largely a matter of personal preference. I have my reasons for the style I chose for myself, but it's suited to the way my perception and cognition work, and I doubt anyone would agree with all of my choices. The important part, in that case, is to achieve consensus among all parties and then be consistent with it.

      Tools like PerlTidy are also helpful to keep negotiations to a minimum, as the code can be re-styled to meet the official style guide or any individual's tastes on the fly. This allows people to have their cakes and eat them too they can disagree and still cooperate without having to negotiate a compromise.

      Makeshifts last the longest.

      I don't think that's a relevant example. The essential difference is that you, a year ago, will never come back, and will not edit the code anymore. The other author however, may.
Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by jacques (Priest) on Sep 04, 2004 at 00:08 UTC
    How do I really code?

    You should code like a samurai. Then if you screw up your code, you can have some redemption in dying well (bravely and with dignity) in seppuku.

      As far as I know, sepukku is not brave with dignity.
      What you mean is probably harakiri.

      Correct me if I'm wrong

        You have it the other way around. You should google it.
Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by blue_cowdawg (Monsignor) on Sep 04, 2004 at 23:39 UTC

        When one opens an existing file written by a different party, puts in a fix that matches the style of the initial author with no traces left behind (except cvs knows :) )

    I see good and bad with "Ninja Coding."

    the good

    When maintaining code other folks code I'm a very ferverent believer in the concept of "First, do no harm." If patching you do improves the code and you end up leaving no footprints behind then all is well. Having said that leaves me a very good seque into the bad

    the bad

    If you patch somone else's code and an unforseen consequence of that patch comes up then you need to be in a position where you can be accountable for that patch. Not for the purpose of guilt, punishment or anything negative like that, but more a case of being able to answer the question "OK, what did you do and where?" Trust me, I have a PHB that modifies my code (and the code of other co-workers of mine) without telling anybody what he did and things break usually in the wee hours of the morning. PHB doesn't even use CVS to track his change.

    When coding in a cooperative environment it is a good thing to maintain lines of communication. So if I change someone else's code I usually put comments in that explain that a) I did it, b) what I did and c) what my rationale was for doing it. Sometimes I've had to modify someone's code due to a bug report or a service ticket so I put the MR or ticket number in the comments as well as in the CVS log message.

    Note: for those not exposed to Dilbert®, PHB means Pointy Haired Boss.

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by perlfan (Vicar) on Sep 04, 2004 at 15:27 UTC
    There is nothing wrong with Ninja coding - I guess I am one too, and I am not ashamed ;). Most of it has to do with the fact that I am too lazy to try to fix someone's code or change their style. I save my "good stuff" for my own code or projects.
Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by Nkuvu (Priest) on Sep 05, 2004 at 09:34 UTC
    I think I'm reading a different meaning than many of the monks posting here, so wanted a little clarification.

    When you say that the only trace is through CVS, my assumption is that there was prior indication of a necessary code fix. Maybe it's just that the last place I worked had a whole process on when you want to check something out that's already been reviewed. First, you had to submit a problem report, and then a software lead would approve it and assign it (probably to the person who originated the report, but to someone else if load balancing was necessary). Then whoever is assigned the task gets to check out the file, make changes, check it back in, and submit it for re-review.

    So what I was thinking was that once all that hoopla was accomplished, you go in and do your ninja coding. No style changes, trying to make your modifications as close to the original as possible.

    However it seems that the majority of the other monks think it's about fixing some code issue without telling anyone. And I'm just not seeing that in the original post. But I admit I may be influenced by too many years of working in an environment that conforms to FAA guidelines.

    Am I the only one who is reading it like this?

      No. I did not see any indication of "fix without telling anyone" either. To me, the question was simply "is it a good or bad thing if I try to always follow the original style of the code so closely that my changes blend right in?"

      Makeshifts last the longest.

        yup. That would be it right one the button. I actually enjoy perfecting my ninja skills of modification without being noticed.
Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by jepri (Parson) on Sep 08, 2004 at 08:27 UTC
    Drat. When I read the title about ninja coding, I immediately slipped into a happy daydream where I track down the original coder and kill him, his family and anyone he ever did business with.*

    For some reason this comic springs to mind, although it probably shouldn't.

    * Just kidding folks - really.

    I didn't believe in evil until I dated it.

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by KeighleHawk (Scribe) on Sep 08, 2004 at 17:05 UTC
    Odd, I almost want to ask how old all the respondants are to this query. I don't mean that in an insulting way. I am just wondering if things are being taught differently these days. I was actually taught that you ALWAYS maintain code in the original style and not a single person made such a strong statement. Some mentioned a personal preference or even conditional preference, but not having been taught that coding in the orignal style was the rule of maintenance programming.

    While doing so can be painful, I have actually experienced the pain of breaking this rule also. Breaking the rule is worse.

    There are two outcomes of breaking the rule. The first and most obvious is everyone does and the resulting code is so abysmally horrendous it starts to rot before your eyes.

    The second is a complete, elegent solution coming as close to beauty as you can imagine. You're co-workers will likely crucify you for it. The reasons for each will be different, the result will be the same. Your efforts will NOT be appreciated.

    When dealing with old code that is no longer representative of current coding styles, changing the coding style should be an agreed upon project or it should be left as is. Mixing it up or fixing it unauthorized will never work in your favor.

    Someone above mentioned the pain of reorganizing someone else's play pen. Believe it...

    If you feel you have lost yourself, create a personal project outside of work for personal development. Your employer doesn't care about your being creativly restrained. Your employer wants you to be replaceable. Code only you can maintain restrains your manager. Code your co-workers have to be trained to understand costs your manager. Code that looks like all the rest makes your manager comfortable and is what they believe they are paying you for.

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by Steve_p (Priest) on Sep 10, 2004 at 18:31 UTC

    I have a better suggestion that I read elsewhere (maybe Joel on Software). Rather than stealth code fixes, write good test cases that expose the bug.

    This has several advantages. First, you get to write good code even if it is just for a test case. Second, you force the fix to happen. Third, you force the bad coder away from new development and towards fixing their bugs. The original article I read suggested burying such coders in bug reports to prevent them from inflicting any more (new) damage on the system.

      Hm. Instead of merely correcting the code, enlighten the other person through the use of a question that forces them to see the error.

      The Zen Of Testing. I like. :)

      You are what you think.

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by lwicks (Pilgrim) on Sep 08, 2004 at 11:18 UTC
    Ninja Coding sounds like how I got into coding proper. You get told to fix/change something and you do it by reading the existing code then adding a few lines here or there.

    Like you say, not potentially the best code but it works. If you do it for enough different other people, I suspect you will learn others "styles" and hopefully over time learn the best from each style and eventually you'll develop a personal style that is pretty good.

    I am a noob really, but hacking/Ninja coding others code has taught me a heck of a lot. But I too was not sure if I could actually code anything on my own or at least in my own style.
    So... I started a sourceforge project and I am slowly writing my own code and getting better as I go along.

    Ninja Coding is great for learning, but starting fresh with your own style takes it from learning to mastery. (well I hope it will anyway!)


    Kia Kaha, Kia Toa, Kia Manawanui!
    Be Strong, Be Brave, Be perservering!

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by prowler (Friar) on Sep 06, 2004 at 14:25 UTC

    My approach is that by not forcing myself to stick with the same style as the original developer, I can see (albeit not with a perfect success rate) who put what where. If the SQL query has uppercase keywords then I probably wrote it (or rewrote it).

    More importantly, if something has stopped working and the query is all lowercase, one of the other guys could probably explain what has changed and why, rather than me trying to determine whether I am at fault. CVS doesn't get used much here (except in the stuff that is basically my exclusive area), so those factors will play less of a part for someone that has change logs etc.

     - Spelling is a demanding task that requies you full attention.

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by bluto (Curate) on Sep 07, 2004 at 20:37 UTC
    I'm a ninja coder. I admit it. But in the process, I'm afraid that I've lost my true self. How do I really code?

    My style rule: If you have to maintain the someone elses code style, your sanity level will approach the sanity level of the original developer.

    I've worked on a large code base with many developers in the past. In general it is a good idea to keep the existing author's style especially if they are still maintaining the code, and it doesn't drive you crazy. I don't look at it as losing myself, but rather being able to adapt.

    That said, I feel your pain. My sanity took a hit a while back when I had to maintain a fair amount of code that someone reformatted to their "taste" since they didn't want to maintain the original style. This taste included making lines go past 100-columns by using crazy indentation rules and lots of levels of indentation, introducing non-English comments and variable names to code written entirely in English, and using huge variable names (>60 characters long in some cases). This made it impossible to even diff the code against previous releases and determine what changes were actually made, even with a version control system. My choice was to keep with their "style", reformat the huge amount of code again, or find other work. The other work is working out just fine...

Re: Ninja style coding... is it bad?
by poqui (Deacon) on Sep 09, 2004 at 16:43 UTC
    First, I see a problem with the idea of code "ownership".
    If you are in an environment where you are coding for a production environment, no-one truly "owns" the code. Especially once it has been released into production. I can understand some level of code "ownership" before release, ie: the programmer checks out something in order to work on it. I would be very disdainful of anyone going in and changing code I was currently working on. But once checked in, it becomes fair game again.

    My point is that having worked on maintaining other people's code for a significant part of my career, hiding changes is a big no-no to me.
    Part of every change to a piece of code, for me, is adding a note at the top of the file that I have editied this code, what I did, and on what date. Also, I include a comment at the point where I made the change, with my initials and the date again. I feel that the loss of flow in reading the code is more than made up for by the time saved looking for that last change that needs to be backed out or tweaked because of changing requirements or expectations or bugs.

Log In?

What's my password?
Create A New User
Domain Nodelet?
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: perlmeditation [id://388433]
Approved by ccn
Front-paged by Aristotle
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others making s'mores by the fire in the courtyard of the Monastery: (4)
As of 2022-08-18 11:35 GMT
Find Nodes?
    Voting Booth?

    No recent polls found