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Re^2: Perl 6 and trend towards web-based applications

by Revelation (Deacon)
on Jan 15, 2005 at 06:19 UTC ( [id://422465]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re: Perl 6 and trend towards web-based applications
in thread Perl 6 and trend towards web-based applications

Unlike PHP, which is a tool just to make web sites

This is completely untrue. PHP has a command line interface much like perl's. What is true is that PHP caters to easy web development for small tasks. PHP successfully targets the niche of programmers most interested in creating small websites, and thus is rather prevalent in the "anybody's internet" world.

Now, it's important to note that web-based applications and websites are two largely different markets. To me, the success of Perl should be predicated upon its success as an all purpose language as well as a viable (and hopefully primary option) for web-based applications and larger websites. While one might see a lot of small websites, "Bob's Family Picture Site" that use PHP, Perl's success with larger websites should drive the language's online presence. Right now, for larger projects, Perl is a more than viable option. Template Toolkit, Text::Template, etc. make creating a website that separates html and code rather easy. I think that for Perl to grow its userbase a more viable alternative to PHPBB needs to be created as does a more viable alternative to PHPnuke and Postnuke. Perl programmers have a tendancy to create huge code reserves; for instance, Slashcode and Everything Engine are not easily installable for a Perl novice, who wants simply the functionality of the current PHP solutions. Thus, Perl looses these people. While I see this as a problem, I see the packages such as Slashcode that are made as boons to the Perl community. They demonstrate Perl's success in terms of larger web application, past the simple forum (and yes, sourceforge is mostly PHP, but I've found that the a larger number of big web application-like sites are Perl.)

I think that if Perl borrows from PHP in terms of its approach to the internet, it should continue to do so "like Perl." A critical element of PHP's online success has been that it's natural to embed code into websites, making PHP ideal for small tasks; I don't think that Perl should try and copy this--perhaps one could create mod_embedperl to do so, but I don't think this should be natural. Moreover, I think that some of PHP's simplicities (such as built-in session management) could perhaps be served by some sort of pragma, use PHPishPerl; which would load these constructs in some sort of transparent manner. Otherwise, I think Perl successfully deals with the internet being part of the set of problems posed to a Perl programmer, not natively needed.

Finally, I think it's important to note the difference in development models. CPAN arms Perl with a great resource; however, it also lets Perl's userbase dictate its functionality. Coming back to session management, while Ruby has CGI::Session by mattz and PHP has built in Session management this is handled in Perl by a module constructed by a programmer, most concerned with flexibility. I have found that Perl, in general, takes more parameters of input, because it is based off of Unix's tool and filter philosophy, where the flexibility of the base is essential. Thus, the learning curve for Perl is higher, because one needs to learn how to manipulate his tools, rather than only how to use them.

In addition, this has made Perl a strong all purpose tool, that is especially strong for designing web applications, and command line applications quickly, as well as one liners to complete a task. I envision Perl 6 making it easier to design larger command line applications, extending Perl's model, enhancing Perl's OO capabilities, cleaning up the language's internals, making less stuff core, and adding functionality to the language. I don't see it making Perl a niche language--Perl is neither PHP which is oriented towards the web, mathematica, which is oriented towards mathematical problems, or C, which is faster computationally. It's just Perl.

I guess I'm rambling.

Gyan Kapur
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Re^3: Perl 6 and trend towards web-based applications
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 15, 2005 at 23:14 UTC
    Unlike PHP, which is a tool just to make web sites
    This is completely untrue. PHP has a command line interface much like perl's.

    The OP might have overstated things saying PHP is "just to make web sites," but only slightly. It's true that PHP has a command line interface, but it's still geared towards websites. Sure, it can be used to do other things, but so can PostScript. :-)

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