Re: Level Proposal

Just my $0.02, to take or leave.

While some of our levels, like Monk and Initiate, do not of necessity suggest specific cultural roots, others, like Friar and Bishop, are, as far as I know, unique to the older Christian traditions (Catholicism in particular). For my part, I find it rather difficult to fathom someone finding this offensive. The metaphors I've seen employed here have virtually nothing to do with religion, but rather with reflection, study, and social hierarchy.

In fact, our present level titles have less religious significance that those footpad suggests. After all, titles such as Friar or Bishop have no metaphysical implications... I don't believe I've met anyone here who didn't believe that Friars or Bishops exist (Saints are a different matter). Totems, on the other hand, are emblems of spirits, not titles for people. If we're actually to worry about such things... and I suggest we don't... it would be a safer thing to have Imams, Shamans, Samani, Muezzins, Rabbis, Brahmins, Ayatollahs, Medicine Men, Muftis, Lamas (Dalai, Grand, Panchen and Plain Vanilla), et cetera.

In any case, if someone does find the current state of affairs or proposals for future changes offensive, they ought to post their views. The Chatterbox is no place for serious debate on site policy. I have never heard such a sentiment uttered even in the Chatterbox, however, so from my perspective none of this seems to be a real problem.

Aesthetically, I think it much more pleasing to keep to the established motif, rather than vary. Saint, to me, sounds like a excellent final level still, unless we'd like to append "Pope" at, say, 1,000,000 XP. Anyway, if we're going to bother adding new levels, I'd sooner raise the number of XPs required for Saint, and add lower levels. Of the many titles which would not break with the present theme my favorites are:

Arch-Bishop
Cardinal (tilly might want Ordinal, too)
Curate
Predicant
Hermit (because some of us *are* that hard up for lives)
Vicar
Prior
Beadle (alakaboo loves The Beadles)
Deacon

Of course, this would mean a lot of de-cannonized Saints, and perhaps some other shuffling besides. However there seems to be little difference between suddenly finding you're no longer a Saint, and suddenly finding you haven't achieved the highest possible level. Perhaps demoted Saints could be given a special title until they regain their former station... like Bodhisattva. Granted this doesn't quite fit the scheme, but the metaphor is nice: those who reached enlightenment and came back again. Whatever the case, one would hope that people would take it in stride, set their sights higher, and continue to learn, teach, and have fun as before.

Incidentally, I also like arturo's notion of honorifics... perhaps this whole thing shouldn't be quite so linear.

Comment on Re: Level Proposal

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Re: Level Proposal by amelinda (Friar) on Feb 24, 2001 at 04:24 UTC
Oooh, Ooooh! I wanna be a Vicar! (Well, technically, I'd be a Vicaress, but still...) In all honesty, this sounds just fine to me... the whole totem expansion just doesn't really match the theme. It's a strained metaphor¹. And as for the "people might be offended by christian themes," uhm, guys, they're already offended and left when they saw the whole monastery theme. Update: Uncle! Uncle! Yes, I do know that it was tilly who was complaining about overly christian themes in the suggestions for new levels. For reference, I am a significantly non-christian person. However, I still think that we are already on a christian theme, so why are people getting pissy now? On the other hand, someone else in this thread suggested some religious titles from some other religions. I'd personally be just as happy if we used some of those, if the community decided that we really do need to add more levels. ¹ Yes, it's already strained, but this is a totally orthagonal strain.	[reply]
Re^2: Level Proposal by harangzsolt33 (Chaplain) on Oct 29, 2022 at 00:57 UTC
To find these names offensive is ridiculous. I think, the titles are fine. I have a question though. I recently became a "Hermit," and I am not sure what this means. I clicked on this link https://perlmonks.com/?node=The Hermitage and it's empty. Is this page empty on purpose or by mistake?	[reply]
Re^3: Level Proposal by kcott (Archbishop) on Oct 29, 2022 at 02:16 UTC
G'day harangzsolt33, "I recently became a "Hermit," ..." Congratulations on reaching level 10. "... and I am not sure what this means." I'm guessing you visited "Voting/Experience System", found the "Hermit" link and followed that to "The Hermitage" page. On that basis, you already have some understanding of these levels; there's some more information on the "Levels of Monks" page. "I clicked on this link https://perlmonks.com/?node=The Hermitage and it's empty. Is this page empty on purpose or by mistake? " Firstly, please don't use absolute URLs. See "What shortcuts can I use for linking to other information?" (the All Links Within PerlMonks Should Be Relative section near the bottom) for the reason behind this. A better choice would've been `[id://1217124]` which renders as an appropriate relative link: "The Hermitage". When I followed your posted link (which left me logged off as "Anonymous Monk") I saw: You don't have sufficient permission to view this node. When I followed the "Hermit" link in "Voting/Experience System" (which left me logged on) I saw: Info for Hermits (and above) only So, as you're a "Hermit", and I'm "above", we both should have seen the "Info". The page isn't empty; but it's clearly incomplete. I suggest you raise this as an issue in "Perl Monks Discussion". Update (clarification): My statement of "clearly incomplete" could be wrong. It's possible that the condition for viewing the "Info" is incorrect; or maybe there's some other problem. Regardless, something is definitely wrong and should be fixed. — Ken	[reply] [d/l]
Re^4: Level Proposal by LanX (Saint) on Oct 29, 2022 at 10:10 UTC
For completeness: > A better choice would've been `[id://1217124]` which renders as an appropriate relative link: "The Hermitage". Or just `[The Hermitage]` ---> The Hermitage (second best choice tho) edit continuation here ---> Hermitage page is blank Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the 𐍀𐌴𐍂𐌻 Programming Language :) Wikisyntax for the Monastery}	[reply] [d/l] [select]
Re^5: Level Proposal by kcott (Archbishop) on Oct 30, 2022 at 01:07 UTC
Re^6: Level Proposal by LanX (Saint) on Oct 30, 2022 at 11:18 UTC
Some notes below your chosen depth have not been shown here
Re^4: Level Proposal by erzuuli (Cannon) on Oct 30, 2022 at 17:19 UTC
something is definitely wrong and should be fixed. The page used to show some info, but it got removed. So I have added a parenthetical note that there is no information at this time.	[reply]
Re^2: Level Proposal by Bod (Parson) on Oct 29, 2022 at 23:36 UTC
I guess there have been a few variations of the hiarchy of levels over the years... Until this post was raised from the Vaults of the Monastery, I had never considered the matter. So by default, I accepted that they were created, fully formed and intact on the day the Monastery was built. That's the sort of wrong conclusion that is drawn from not thinking something through. Having said, if we think everything through, we never actually achieve much beyond lots of thinking. IMHO thinking is in short supply in society. But it is also possible, although rare, to overdo it	[reply]

Re: Level Proposal

1 Yes, it's already strained, but this is a totally orthagonal strain.

edit

¹ Yes, it's already strained, but this is a totally orthagonal strain.