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Re: Impressions and Suggestions

by footpad (Abbot)
on Mar 20, 2001 at 09:23 UTC ( #65629=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Impressions and Suggestions

Interesting observations, but I respectfully disagree. The Monastery is *not* an RPG, a MUD, or online game.

It's a gathering place to share, learn, and expand the Perl Way. It's a port of call--home away from home--for diplomats, entrepreneurs, hustlers, and wanders. Oh, wait..sorry. Wrong intro.

Seriously, I think you've misunderstood things. Some may take the XP seriously, but others don't. Regardless, the point--the real point--is that we're all here to better our knowledge of Perl, to become better programmers, and to learn from each other's experience, knowledge, and wisdom.

XP's don't count. You can't buy anything with them and there's no free T-Shirt for "winning."

Instead, you win when you increase your understanding of Perl, its modules, and its effective use. That "ah-hah" moment of clarity. That's your prize. The exultation when it finally works or you finally *get* it.

It's one thing to read books and to tinker around, but this is a place where you can get honest feedback from professionals who use this language every single day. You can learn from their mistakes, you can get esoteric specifics about situations you never dreamed existed. In short, these people can help you write better Perl programs and to become a better programmer. *Use* that and learn from your peers' experience.

This is not a game and very few are playing games in these halls. Yes, we cut up from time to time and enjoy ourselves. Yes, we have our share of trolls and XP addicts. However, by and large, we're here to learn, to help, and to give to the Perl community.

It's *not* a race; you don't get HP or skill points for gaining levels. However, if you take the time to check around, to pay attention, and to listen to the advice offered to you and to the advice offered to other petitioners, you will gain *skills*. Mind you, you must be paying attention (for some lessons are subtle) and you must have an open mind (for you will frequently be mistaken or uninformed), but if you participate and you listen, you will learn what to do and what not to do--something you will not be able to do if your primary objective is XP. (This ain't Everquest, bunky.)

In short, I appreciate your suggestions and acknowledge that they're considered, but I argue against major tinkering with the voting system as it stands.

I will agree that we need more tutorials and reviews. Your contest idea is interesting, but I'd rather give out a T-Shirt, instead of XP. Oh, wait...that was tried recently, wasn't it?

Nevertheless, adding quality reviews and tutorials is a laudable goal and a fair challenge. I'm working on one of each. Do you care to write one?


P.S. Yes, I'm a B5 fan. Why do you ask?

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Re: Re: Impressions and Suggestions
by jorg (Friar) on Mar 20, 2001 at 16:17 UTC
    sorry footpad but lately there's been a lot of talk on 'XP whoring' in the CB.. Fundamentally you're stating how PM should be and how it's intended to be but admit, for some this is just an XP contest. It's a basic drive of people to move up the ladder and do whatever it takes to get there :))
    'XP whoring' is not that bad after all, if someone thinks hard and long just to come up with some original code or question about Perl, just so he could gain some XP than i'ld say his motivation might have been wrong but the effect on PM will be correct ie innovation and meditation within the Monastery.

      I respectfully disagree on the harm.

      By answering easy questions fast we create an environment where people become scared to try answering questions. I think it is important to give people who have only a partial understanding room to try answer the questions that they can get.


      Well here is a list of reasons:

      1. People get intimidated.
      2. Trying to answer questions is an instructive process.
      3. Corrections to answers gets at more subtle misconceptions than the initial question/answer. Therefore it gives an opportunity for discussions that take people to the next level.
      4. Answering questions is a satisfying thing to do. Increasing how many get to experience that satisfaction broadens participation in the site.
      5. It frees experienced people to spend time on more advanced discussions.
      One thing that I like about this site is that there is a range of discussion levels. There isn't a rigid division between gurus here and novices there. Rather there is a spectrum of discussion and opinions that underscores the fact that novices can become gurus, and can become gurus in less time than they probably expect.

      I think that it hurts that when experienced people "clean up" on the easy questions. Leave them for someone who needs the practice...

      I think Perl Monks is used by some folk to have XP competitions, perhaps amongst friends, and perhaps the quality of their response is lessened by their eagerness to reply.

      I don't think 'XP Whores' exist but at times XP may be important to folk. Perhaps there is a plateau where this doesn't happen anymore, perhaps it is entirely dependant on the person and their values

      I think a lot of what happens is that people see a question they can answer and want to reply, more often than not, for alturistic reasons, wanting to help and not make a corroborative reply they rush in.

      The end results are the same and the intention which is always hidden, sometimes even from the person posting. Even in posting we're part of a learning experience, where we can gain insight, by XP Whoring we rob ourselves of this insight by merely casting a cursory glance over 'competitors' responses.

      Brother Frankus.

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