c:>perl -d devel.pl Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.23 Editor support available. Enter h or `h h' for help, or `perldoc perldebug' for more help. main::(devel.pl:3): my $a = undef; DB<1> n main::(devel.pl:4): Dump $a; DB<1> n SV = NULL(0x0) at 0x1829ce0 REFCNT = 1 FLAGS = (PADBUSY,PADMY) main::(devel.pl:5): my $b = \$a; DB<1> n main::(devel.pl:6): Dump $a; DB<1> n SV = NULL(0x0) at 0x1829ce0 REFCNT = 2 ###<----- correct count FLAGS = (PADBUSY,PADMY)