The other problem is the frustrating learn curve of Perl, because we have a list form and a ref form of an array.

No, we have plain variables and references to variables (and functions). The distinction between plain and reference variables is well done IMHO.

But python is worse - it has list and tuple arrays

qwurx [shmem] ~> python
Python 2.7.15+ (default, Nov 27 2018, 23:36:35) 
[GCC 7.3.0] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> foo = (1,2,3,4)
>>> bar = [1,2,3,4]
>>> type(foo)
<type 'tuple'>
>>> type(bar)
<type 'list'>
>>> bar[0] = 5
>>> foo[0] = 5
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
>>> foo
(1, 2, 3, 4)
>>> bar
[5, 2, 3, 4]
>>>
[download]

and it isn't obvious which is which by looking at the identifier. A tuple is inmutable, a list can be assigned to.
This was a major WTF moment for me.

> No, we have plain variables and references to variables (and functions).

I was using my own wording for the distinction.

But sorry "plain variable" is blah.

The fact that other languages do implicit dereferencation in their syntax doesn't make them less plain.

$a, %a and @a are in fact containers for references, to allow such implicit dereferencation. °

So how are containers "plain" now?

But Perl is more explicit* here, which helps understanding what is really happening if you do an assignment a=b in another languages, where they sometimes copy the content or the reference.

Cheers Rolf
_{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice}

updates

°) e.g. $a[0] is by definition (\@a)->[0]

*) "Explicit is better than implicit" quote from Python blah

But sorry "plain variable" is blah.

I was using my own wording for the distinction.

perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'

I think it's also due to the fact that many learn Python as first language and have problems accepting TIMTOWTDI.

> "There should be one - and preferably only one - obvious way to do it."

The "Zen of Python" is a big pile of pseudo religious dogma which doesn't hold scientific scrutiny.

For instance it says "Explicit is better than implicit." but Python does implicit declarations and implicit dereferencing.

This reminds me about an article about religious dogmas I read recently: It described how a newer religions contain polemics against predominant neighboring religions at time of it's creation. Islam vs Christianity, Christianity vs Judaism, mainstream Judaism vs Samaritans and so on.

The Zen of Python is best understood as an anti Perl polemic from back then.

Cheers Rolf
_{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice}

I could never understand what's supposed to be confusing about this.