Re^4: [OT] Swapping buffers in place.

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Re^5: [OT] Swapping buffers in place. by roboticus (Chancellor) on Mar 02, 2015 at 04:17 UTC
BrowserUk: Yeah, I don't expect it would be a cache-friendly algorithm. I didn't expect you were swapping buffers that large, or I'd've probably gone with something that would do blocks at a time, rather than entries. I didn't check the assembler, either, but I'd the extra conditionals mine does would also jam things up. Anonymonk's version looks pretty nifty, so I'll have to go over it to be sure I know what it's doing. ;^) ...roboticus When your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like your thumb.	[reply]
Re^6: [OT] Swapping buffers in place. (Final summation.) by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Mar 02, 2015 at 14:15 UTC
Yeah, I don't expect it would be a cache-friendly algorithm. I didn't expect you were swapping buffers that large, or I'd've probably gone with something that would do blocks at a time, rather than entries. The pathological behaviour only exhibits with buffer/offset pairings specifically chosen to cause it. The paramaters in the following run, 536,870,912/268,435,456 represent an exactly 2GB buffer with the partition half way along: C:\test\C>bufswap 536870912 268435456 2 ### 2^29 2^28 size:536870912 offset;268435456 [ 0 1 ... 268435454 268435455 ^ 268435456 268 +435457 ... 536870910 536870911 ] [ 268435456 268435457 ... 536870910 536870911 ^ 0 + 1 ... 268435454 268435455 ] iterative: swaps:536870912 took 4.364767872 secs. [ 0 1 ... 268435454 268435455 ^ 268435456 268 +435457 ... 536870910 536870911 ] [ 268435456 268435457 ... 536870910 536870911 ^ 0 + 1 ... 268435454 268435455 ] recursive: swaps:268435456 took 2.476348362 secs. [download] Note that although the iterative algorithm does double the swaps, (equal to the total number of U64 elements in the buffer ) of the recursive version, the time taken is substantially less than double (175% .v. 200%) than the time taken by the recursive version. So, there is nothing wrong with the efficiency of the implementation of the algorithm. And in many (maybe most) buffer/offset ratios, they both do the same number of swaps: `C:\test\C>bufswap 30000000 20000000 2 size:30000000 offset;20000000 [ 0 1 ... 19999998 19999999 ^ 20000000 20 +000001 ... 29999998 29999999 ] [ 20000000 20000001 ... 29999998 29999999 ^ 0 + 1 ... 19999998 19999999 ] iterative: swaps:30000000 took 0.235516729 secs. [ 0 1 ... 19999998 19999999 ^ 20000000 20 +000001 ... 29999998 29999999 ] [ 20000000 20000001 ... 29999998 29999999 ^ 0 + 1 ... 19999998 19999999 ] recursive: swaps:20000000 took 0.163142653 secs.` [download] By anyone's standards, performing 1/4 billion swaps of two, 64-bit values, shifting 4GB of data around in the process, all in 4.36 seconds, ain't at all tardy! Oh to be able to get the data off my discs fast enough to make use of that ~1GB/s throughput. The best I get out of my HD is about 200MB/s. My new SSD gets close, but only if the cache is warm. Also note that the total memory above is only 57 x U64s (456 bytes) different to the pathological case, where the buffer/offset pairing is 536,870,855/268,435,399 (2GB+largest prime smaller/largest prime smaller): C:\test\C>bufswap 536870855 268435399 2 ### 2^28+prime prime size:536870855 offset;268435399 [ 0 1 ... 268435397 268435398 ^ 268435399 268 +435400 ... 536870853 536870854 ] [ 268435399 268435400 ... 536870853 536870854 ^ 0 + 1 ... 268435397 268435398 ] iterative: swaps:536870855 took 23.912365889 secs. [ 0 1 ... 268435397 268435398 ^ 268435399 268 +435400 ... 536870853 536870854 ] [ 268435399 268435400 ... 536870853 536870854 ^ 0 + 1 ... 268435397 268435398 ] recursive: swaps:536870854 took 3.633964430 secs. [download] Note that the number of swaps are only 1 different, but the time is 658% longer. That threw me through a lot of hoops! Even though I chose the numbers, (power of 2/largestest prime smaller; based on previous experience of a modulo arithmetic driven process), to exacerbate the scattering effect of the modulo arithmetic -- maximising the number of times the pointer has to wrap around -- it took me completely by surprise at the size of the difference it made. I went over and over and over the code looking for some cock-up before the reality of cache misses hit me. But I also 'lucked out'. I've since tried various other power-of-two/largest prime smaller combinations, and none of them come close to triggering the same kind of differences: C:\test\C>bufswap 2097147 1048571 2 ### 2^20+prime prime size:2097147 offset;1048571 [ 0 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ^ 1048571 1 +048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ] [ 1048571 1048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ^ 0 + 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ] iterative: swaps:2097147 took 0.050917112 secs. [ 0 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ^ 1048571 1 +048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ] [ 1048571 1048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ^ 0 + 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ] recursive: swaps:2097146 took 0.022471381 secs. [ 0 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ^ 1048571 1 +048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ] [ 1048571 1048572 ... 2097145 2097146 ^ 0 + 1 ... 1048569 1048570 ] reversive: swaps:2097146 took 0.030067538 secs. C:\test\C>bufswap 33554429 16777213 2 ### 2^24+prime prime size:33554429 offset;16777213 [ 0 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ^ 16777213 16 +777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ] [ 16777213 16777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ^ 0 + 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ] iterative: swaps:33554429 took 0.519861854 secs. [ 0 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ^ 16777213 16 +777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ] [ 16777213 16777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ^ 0 + 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ] recursive: swaps:33554428 took 0.212679449 secs. [ 0 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ^ 16777213 16 +777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ] [ 16777213 16777214 ... 33554427 33554428 ^ 0 + 1 ... 16777211 16777212 ] reversive: swaps:33554428 took 0.275975182 secs. C:\test\C>bufswap 134217723 67108859 2 ### 2^26+prime prime size:134217723 offset;67108859 [ 0 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ^ 67108859 67 +108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ] [ 67108859 67108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ^ 0 + 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ] iterative: swaps:134217723 took 2.986443308 secs. [ 0 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ^ 67108859 67 +108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ] [ 67108859 67108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ^ 0 + 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ] recursive: swaps:134217722 took 0.957572077 secs. [ 0 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ^ 67108859 67 +108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ] [ 67108859 67108860 ... 134217721 134217722 ^ 0 + 1 ... 67108857 67108858 ] reversive: swaps:134217722 took 1.185514126 secs. C:\test\C>bufswap 268435417 134217689 2 ### 2^27+prime prime size:268435417 offset;134217689 [ 0 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ^ 134217689 134 +217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ] [ 134217689 134217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ^ 0 + 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ] iterative: swaps:268435417 took 11.702352647 secs. [ 0 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ^ 134217689 134 +217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ] [ 134217689 134217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ^ 0 + 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ] recursive: swaps:268435416 took 1.888340531 secs. [ 0 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ^ 134217689 134 +217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ] [ 134217689 134217690 ... 268435415 268435416 ^ 0 + 1 ... 134217687 134217688 ] reversive: swaps:268435416 took 2.337291168 secs. [download] And it is only when the buffer size gets up into the GB range that the shear space which the modulo arithmetic has to distributes the wraps in, ultimately defeats the combined L1/L2/L3 caches and their LRU algorithms and starts to slow things down. I set out to find an algorithm. I lucked out that I had some of the best minds -- which must include this particular anonymonk -- apparently looking for diversion on a Lazy Sunday, and got three excellent ones to choose from. And, being me, once they were all coded & running, the only way I was going to choose was with a benchmark :) BTW: the third algorithm, labeled "reversive" in the spoiler above, is the first one suggested, by bitingduck, that would obviously work. It does 3 successive reverses of the buffer (thus two full passes): `abcdef123 321fedcba reverse the entire buffer. 123fedcba reverse the smaller partition. 123abcdef reverse the larger partition.` [download] I originally dismissed this/saved it as a last resort, because (I thought) that it would do far more swaps than was necessary. In reality, it does exactly the same as the recursive solution (1 less) in every situation I've tested. And it is very clean to program: `U32 reverseBuffer( register U64 p, const U32 start, const U32 size ) +{ register U32 i, swaps = 0; const U32 half = size >> 1; for( i = start; i < half; ++i ) { swapElems( p, i, size -1 -i ); ++swaps; } return swaps; } U32 xchgBufferV( U64 p, U32 size, U32 offset ) { register U32 swaps = 0; swaps += reverseBuffer( p, 0, size ); swaps += reverseBuffer( p, 0, size - offset ); swaps += reverseBuffer( p + (size - offset), 0, offset ); return swaps; }` [download] The only saving graces from that summary dismissal is that a) bitingduck was himself somewhat dismissive of it; b) it led to a highly entertaining thread; far more analysis than I would ever have done otherwise; and the brilliant outcome of an algorithm that seems to perform near optimally under all the circumstances I've thrown at it. I hope other people were as entertained by it as I was. With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday' Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error. "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I'm with torvalds on this In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Agile (and TDD) debunked	[reply] [d/l] [select]
Re^7: [OT] Swapping buffers in place. (Final summation.) by bitingduck (Deacon) on Mar 02, 2015 at 15:33 UTC
I've been quite entertained by the whole thread all weekend- it's been my diversion from wrestling with getting a new little computer to talk to various data acq devices using little C snippets to do the direct talking and wrapping Perl around it to make it faster to code up and modify. Fortunately I have most of it wired up and set for remote access, so I could work from the comfort of my couch much of the time. I'm remembering how much C I've forgotten... The algorithm that surprises me the most is the recursive, in that you didn't end up with a lot of stack overhead slowing it down too much or hanging it up-- even just pushing return addresses on the stack and no data it's going to get large for your datasets. Once you showed the manual swaps, I was sure iterative was going to be the answer. Most of what I thought the reversing algorithm had going for it was a) simple to code, b) sure to work without debugging, and c) you can probably fit it in about 20 bytes of code if you get sent back to 1983.	[reply]
Re^8: [OT] Swapping buffers in place. (Final summation.) by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Mar 02, 2015 at 19:38 UTC

By anyone's standards, performing 1/4 billion swaps of two, 64-bit values, shifting 4GB of data around in the process, all in 4.36 seconds, ain't at all tardy!