in reply to The World Trade Center Tragedy

I have a friend named Michael who is a rescue worker for the fire department in NYC. He also did the same job in the army, now as a reserve member. As such, yesterday he got double called to duty.

The odds for him weren't good, but so far, word is that's he's still alive somehow after 18 hours of digging through rubble & bodies. Though you can see in his eyes that he'll never be the same again. It's a hell beyond anyone's imagination.

One of the things that concerns me the most about him now is that awful 'soot' that's flying around all over Manhattan now.

My wife is an architect & she explained to me that during the time that the WTC was constructed, asbestos was in heavy use. Even if they had gone through the building & removed the asbestos insulation, there still remains asbestos fibers that were mixed into the concrete.

I have noticed a lot of reporters referring to this airbourne debris as 'soot' or 'ash'. This isn't a volcano! And the fires, though enormous, are not burning on that scale. That is pulverized construction material.

So now you're thinking 'great, I walked around in that crap all day yesterday, now what do I do?' Well if I were you I would throw away all of the clothes I was wearing & anything they touched. (The bedspread you threw your jeans onto, etc.) Take a cold shower & scrub like mad with a loofa or pumice stone. And go to the health food store & get charcoal tablets. These are commonly used to remove many kinds of toxins, as they provide bonding sites for the chemicals to stick to, instead of inside you.

Above all, be aware that you have been exposed & inform your doctor. Don't take it lightly.

I found it astonishing that when I was watching the Mayor & the Governor on television, that when they were asked about asbestos directly they deflected the question rather than making people aware of the inherent danger. I doubt very much that he could have generated more panic than had already ensued.

As for politically based commentary, I can find no forgiveness for anyone who trivializes the mass slaughter that took place here & nothing less than the poisoning of an entire city. When the death toll is complete this is going to number in the tens of thousands. This is clearly an Act of War. The only people in the history of the world who might have a claim to perpetrate this justly, might be the Japanese, in retaliation for 2 atomic bombs... Anyone else had no right whatsoever. Including Iraq. We didn't poison them, and we didn't target civillians.

It is also clearly an act of desperation. In WWII the japanese resorted to the 'divine wind'/kamikaze attacks because they clearly were losing the war. It didn't prevent them from losing, it only made the final resolution more bitter. We resorted to the A-Bomb because projections for taking the island of Japan put the casualties at one million. In this way, using the A-Bomb saved lives. But in the pure view of morality you're looking at the difference between civilian & combatant's lives...

I do not feel that nuclear retaliation is to be ruled out. This is not a war to be won fighting by Queenbury's rules. Think of Apolcalypse Now & the speech Brando gave about ruthlessness. The fact is this, we no longer need provocation or moral justification to attack at will.

My only hope is that we follow up properly on choosing that target & not rush the job & botch it like they did with the Kennedy investigation, where they only wanted to provide a clear & swift image of justice to the public.



Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Asbestos Clear & Present Danger
by da (Friar) on Sep 14, 2001 at 00:47 UTC
    This came over a mailing list I'm on and is relevent for anybody in NYC. Though I don't know the sender, I've verified that both senders are real accademics at their respective institutions.

    From: David A. Klatell <dak25@columbia.edu>
    Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:52 PM
    Subject: Health Precautions

    From Professor Ross, who is on leave this year:

    There is a serious health risk as well -- asbestos. The NYT I got this morning in Boston did not cover this at all, but plenty of walking wounded are being shipped to NJ for decontamination (Clara Mas on the west side of Newark has the only decon unit in North Jersey, I think) and health care professionals know the risk. They are wearing protective clothing, even at the hospital. Briefly:

    The WTC was the LAST big building in the US to use blow-on asbestos insulation to protect the steel beams from fire's heat. The asbestos type specified for this purpose is chrysotile ("white" asbestos). This type is generally believed to be no more dangerous than any other fiber (the fiber in fiber glass, for instance). But crocidolite, another form of asbestos ("blue" asbestos) contaminates chrysotile in most asbestos deposits, and it has been known for 30 years that the asbestos used in the WTC has a lot of it. This stuff is now blown all over lower Manhattan. Crocidolite is a carcinogen, considered a POTENT carcinogen by many. (Mt. Sinai in Manhattan has long had a good research team on this issue.) There are plenty of documented cases of shipyard workers getting mesothelioma (a cancer of the chest lining, unique to asbestos) after only a few weeks' exposure to croc. Smoking raising the risk drastically. Almost 100% of all asbestos workers in the 60s and 70s who smoked have died of mesothelioma.

    Asbestos fibers are caught in simple medical face masks, if the masks are worn properly (no beards!). I would not send a student who smokes down into lower manhattan without such protection. After a visit, they should shower and send clothing to the laundry (to avoid spreading dust to others).

    BTW, most of the gray ash seems to be made up mainly of clay (from paper) and other construction materials, but there is asbestos there as well.

    The Port Authority ignored advice on this issue when the towers were built. Also, contrary to NYC building codes at the time, the stairwells for emergency use did not open directly to the outside -- a serious bottleneck partially overcome by above-average attention to tenant training.

    Steven S. Ross
    Co-Director, Institute for Analytic Journalism
    Boston University School of Communications
    1-617-353-3296
    ssr3@bu.edu

    -- David A. Klatell
    Academic Dean
    Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism
    2950 Broadway
    New York, NY 10027
    tel: (212) 854-3319
    fax: (212) 854-3939
    e-mail: dak25@columbia.edu --- 

    ___
-DA
> perl -MPOSIX -e'$ENV{TZ}="US/Eastern";print ctime(1000000000)'
Sat Sep  8 21:46:40 2001

    [download]

    2006-08-04 Retitled by planetscape, as per Monastery guidelines

    Read more... view votes (25 Bytes)

    Original title: 'Asbestos'

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[d/l]
Re: Asbestos Clear & Present Danger
by grinder (Bishop) on Sep 14, 2001 at 18:03 UTC

    ++ for the asbestos information, but you are way off mark to suggest that the A-bomb ended WWII in Japan.

    Japan was already putting out peace feelers with a view to surrender. Truman was worried about the reaction of the American population when they found out that billions of dollars (in 1940s real dollars) researching weaponary that was never to be used! Imagine all the B-17s and B-29s they could have built with the money... The pressure was too much to resist: he had to order the bomb to be used, in order to prove that the money spent was worthwhile.

    And US and western media basically went along with this story for decades. We all heard at school that the death toll would have been horrific had there been a land-based war on Japanese soil. This was never on the cards, Japan was trying to find an honourable way to surrender and make peace.

    Alternate media channels tried to bring this issue to light a couple of years ago, and were roundly attacked for doing so. Never mind that in Hiroshima and Nagasaki 95% of the victims were civilians.

    Some more interesting links on this subject. I am sure that googling for atomic bomb hiroshima controversy will turn up many more links -- these are just old links I have bookmarked in years past.

    update: how cute, in this whole OT thread, this node managed to garner a response labelling it off-topic. I thought this forum was about Perl, but never mind.

    I freely admit to fail[ing] to offer an alternative, consequence-free path of action. The immensity of the stupefying act of terrorism boggles my mind. That said, I don't think jingoistic editorials like this particular diatribe offer any constructive advice. That's just pouring oil on the fire.

    --
    g r i n d e r
[reply]

      you are way off mark to suggest that the A-bomb ended WWII in Japan.

      I did not. You are attempting to spin doctor my comments to justify your rant. I was speaking about desperation:

      It is also clearly an act of desperation. In WWII the japanese resorted to the 'divine wind'/kamikaze attacks because they clearly were losing the war. It didn't prevent them from losing, it only made the final resolution more bitter. We resorted to the A-Bomb because projections for taking the island of Japan put the casualties at one million. In this way, using the A-Bomb saved lives. But in the pure view of morality you're looking at the difference between civilian & combatant's lives...

      I will repeat that I do not condone the killing of civilians, even in times of war, which this is clearly not, since no formal declaration war has been made by our cowardly enemies. However, a military response towards military targets is the only response anyone can realistically expect. Even if, as may very well be in this case, your "military bunker" or "munitions factory" is a basement apartment with a bunch of guys with bathtubs, gasoline, and soap - straight out of Fight Club.

      This is terribly sad, yes. But a chain of events has been put into motion that isn't going to stop. I find the very wide and unprecedented powers that are being given to the CiC at this time a little ominous... Writing a blank check always is... And this one has War - American style filled in for the amount.

      But while you may throw stones at the imperfect handling of these events, you fail to offer an alternative, consequence-free path of action.



      Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!
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