in reply to Should it live or die?

My sincere thanks to everyone who replied to this node, either here, by email, on irc or the chatterbox. I am now assured that the site has enough perceived value to not die, and that changes need to be made.

ask, links to various sites, including nntp.perl.org and learn.perl.org are now on the site. Thank you for the suggestion :) I'm sure that will prove to be the easiest change to have implemented :)

It seems to be the consensus that scripts need to be reviewed and marked (at the very least) as safe or unsafe. The idea of a Quality Assurance-type incentive is sublime. How then, should commercial scripts be reviewed? It's dubious that that authors will provide a review copy at no charge.

In order to implement a QA program, we will need to have a basic set of standards to which a script must adhere to pass the quality assurance tests. Here's a simple starting point for critique:

As chromatic noted, there definitely appears to be an increasing interest in code review. The hard part about this is what should be charged for a personal code review? Because this was brought up to me previously with a potential reviewer, I've had discussions about what it would cost (and decided at the time that it was too expensive for the average coder offering a free script). We definitely need to steer clear of "get a review and get a QA listing" or something like that. The code review must be separate from the increased exposure that a Quality Assured listing would receive, lest the programmers think they are paying for an improved listing instead of a code review. We also need to tie in the version number of the reviewed code to maintain assurance and write disclaimers, disclaimers, and more disclaimers.

Several, including footpad have recommended that we take the initiative to either write or have written better versions of scripts in various categories. In a perfect world there would be at least one rewritten script for each category (eek!) with the exception of the Remotely Hosted category so that all bases are covered. For this, I would like to defer to other programmers, as it's probable that my "free time" will be spent implementing and maintaining the other improvements.

And last but not least, articles. If anyone has interest in writing or reviewing articles and/or programs, or helping with anything else that was discussed on this thread, please /msg me. I'm not certain what we can offer in terms of payment, but we'll do our best.

One last question, if I may impose a little more... In my opinion, the forums are redundant to PerlMonks and now nntp.perl.org. Should perlguru simply point to those sites instead? It seems to scatter knowledge quite a bit. It's uncertain how throwing 600+ users onto PerlMonks and nntp.perl.org would be received by existing participants, though. Opinions?

Again, thanks to everyone for their input. I look forward to revamping the structure of the site to make it a more useful and safe resource.

Many, many thanks,
Jasmine

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Re: Should it live or die?
by Chrisf (Friar) on Nov 19, 2001 at 22:42 UTC

    It's uncertain how throwing 600+ users onto PerlMonks and nntp.perl.org would be received by existing participants, though. Opinions?

    heh, probably the same way as when merlyn mentioned perlmonks in Learning Perl ;-)

    Seriously though, I think it would be fine to provide a link to the monastery. There might be a few more RTFM responses, but we'd be working for the greater good, right? =D (you might also want to consider linking to the Q&A and FAQ sections)

Re: Re: Should it live or die?
by ask (Pilgrim) on Nov 20, 2001 at 13:16 UTC
    It's uncertain how throwing 600+ users onto PerlMonks and nntp.perl.org would be received by existing participants, though. Opinions?

    There are +3000 users on the beginners lists at perl.org; there'll probably be room for a few more somehow. The PerlMonk community seems to be handling lots of users nicely too.

     - ask

    -- 
    ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/   !try; do();
    
Re: Re: Should it live or die?
by BMaximus (Chaplain) on Nov 20, 2001 at 02:34 UTC
    The forums may be redundant but some of those users call it home and may not be comfortable anywhere else. Not to mention the knowlege that's stored there. I'd keep the forums on the site.

    BMaximus
Re: Re: Should it live or die?
by social_mandog (Sexton) on Nov 20, 2001 at 05:58 UTC
    Thanks for posting this.

    > I'm constantly torn between what is right for
    > Perl and what is right for everything else.

    For the original monks this was the answer.

    However consider also that this organization has stayed as faithful as it could and achieved only local and intermittent success and that this organization has from time to time compromised and achived more global success

    >How then, should commercial scripts be reviewed?

    Well, you could refuse to post scripts that haven't been reviewed.

    Alternately you could charge $50 per year to list scripts that can't be reviewed and mark those links as advertising.

    >The hard part about this is what should be charged
    >for a personal code review?

    Maybe nothing. I've learned by reviewing scripts here and by reading people's review's of my reviews. I can justify the time to myself. (Arguably my review time is not worth paying for)

    You could probably post 1-3 scripts a week here for review...

    People could ++ the node if they thought it worth distribution and -- if not.

    >Use strict and warnings (or know/explain why they are not)
    >Should use CGI.pm

    A couple regex's would probably test for this pretty quickly.

    There is probably other simple QA code that could help you quickly winnow through the 90% ....

    >Should perlguru simply point to perlmonks and those sites instead?

    Yes, you should feed strength.

    One question you might ask yourself is:

    If my forums should be phased out because they are not as rigorous as perlmonks, Are my script archives as rigorous as CPAN?"

    It wouldn't be hard to argue that your site fills a niche that CPAN does not. It is not for me to make the case.

    If you are looking to increase quality, you might look at CPAN's methods...

    Other questions you might ask yourself are:

    “If I take the site down will people wind up writing their own even more insecure and crappy scripts?”

    "Are insecure and crappy scripts better than no scripts at all?"