in reply to RE: RE: Visual Perl & ActiveState (Ozymandias: Rhetoric vs. Rhetoric)
in thread Visual Perl & ActiveState

I'm sorry but I can't let that slide! this is so much crap! Microsoft didn't invent personal computers or make them cheap. Lots of other people were in the personal computer market before IBM got involved and lots of them had better hardware designs too. It was pure luck on Microsofts part and incompetence on IBM's that gave Microsoft such a dominant position.

If anybody made IBM compatible machines cheap, it was the clone makers who comoditised the market. The BIOS cloners were at least as important as Microsoft in that respect (if not more so).

And yes this is an Anti-Microsoft rant, but I struggle with thier software every working day. I just wish my Senior management (read pointy haired managers) were enlightened enough to allow me to use a Unix derivitive on this machine.

Nuance

Baldrick, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

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RE: RE: RE: RE: Visual Perl & ActiveState (Ozymandias: Microsoft As Good Thing I)
by Ozymandias (Hermit) on May 30, 2000 at 20:38 UTC
    I never said I *liked* their products, although as a LAN/Systems administrator I use them every day, too. But until Microsoft's marketing department got into the act, no one was selling such a thing as a "home PC", aside from little toys like the Atari game systems. Once Microsoft started, Apple followed, and IBM and the other hardware manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the pit.

    I was there; I remember it. I miss my old Apple][, and the Commodore 64 even more; but Microsoft changed that, and it's rare that I think it's a bad thing. After all, Microsoft drove the price of hardware down, and for that I'm grateful; but that doesn't mean I have to use their OS on my hardware.

[reply]
      I was there too :-)

      I remember my Atari 1200 with fondness, Atari basic was my first artifical language.

      You make some interesting points about Microsoft's marketers, who are undoubtedly the most efficient part of the organisation. I'm still not convinced that Microsoft pushed the price of hardware down. I think that martket forces and Intel's company policy are what pushed the price of hardware down. Electronic goods get cheaper over time, this is an established principle, but one that was initiated by (according to my history texts) Bob Noyce (Intel co-founder) when he worked at Fairchild.

      Microsoft don't make hardware devices (Basic UI peripherals excepted) the price of the hardware has nothing to do with them.

      Regards

      Nuance

      Baldrick, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

[reply]
        Yes and no. Microsoft doesn't make hardware (agreed, keyboards and such excepted) but they DO make the most prevalent (from a home-user standpoint) operating system. One of the things Microsoft did to help along those market forces you mention (and their own pocketbook) was to sell the idea of the home PC to the public. Bob Noyce had nothing to do with it. Ask your mom and dad (or, to play it safe, their neighbor) why they bought their first home PC. If it was a Mac, then they don't fit; Steve Jobs possessed them. But if it was a PC, see if the name "Bob Noyce" is mentioned anywhere.

        I knew what Windows was before I knew about Intel; to the average home user, the box is just an appliance, like the TV or the microwave. The "computer" is the operating system, and that's Windows.

        - Ozymandias

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