Re: Re: Dispelling the Myth in The Outside World

Wow, you too! I have a degree in Theater as well. I never got a degree in Comp Sci and it has never hurt me in the least. I just didn't want all the math. I would have had to take: Calc I, II, III, and IV, Numerical Analysis, Discreet Structures, Differential Equations, Probability and Statistics and one or two more. The comp sci curriculum was 50% math courses. In 14 years of professional coding I have never needed any math other than Algebra and a little Geometry.
The danger of the self-taught coder is a lack of the foundations. This I find to be particularly true with the programmers who back-doored into coding through web work.
Not knowing the fundamentals (data structures, algorithms, logic, compiler theory) eliminates a lot of tools from your toolbox. I went through the trials of C and Assembler and parsers and lexers and such. I know the costs and performance tradeoffs of lists vs hashes vs trees.
I recently taught perl to a bunch of programmers, most of whom had either java or asp/jsp web backgrounds. None of them even knew what a linked-list was. Or a regular expression.
If there is a point to my babbling, it's this. There are both advantages and disadvantages to the self-taught programmer. Remove the disadvantages. Learn 13 or 14 different languages (i'd recommend postscript, lisp, icon, prolog and c to be exposed to a lot of different types of languages). Learn how a compiler works. Learn lex for lexical analysis. Learn yacc for parsing. Learn how a shell works under the hood (that will teach you a lot). Learn the four types of programming. (See Why I like functional programming for more details). Learn graphical toolkits and databases and cgi and networking and anything else you can.
Give yourself a huge toolbox. Make yourself marketable. Make the answer too every question, "I can do that."

-pete
"Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever."

Comment on Re: Re: Dispelling the Myth in The Outside World

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Re: Re: Re: Dispelling the Myth in The Outside World by Sifmole (Chaplain) on Apr 30, 2002 at 13:51 UTC
I never got a degree in Comp Sci and it has never hurt me in the least. I just didn't want all the math. I would have had to take: Calc I, II, III, and IV, Numerical Analysis, Discreet Structures, Differential Equations, Probability and Statistics and one or two more. Perhaps, to an employer attempting to weed their way through several hundred resumes see the fact that an individual did put forth the effort to work through these classes as a plus? I have worked with many self-taught programmers, and many of them have been good; But there are also too many who are just that, "programmers". They can sling a bit of code to solve a problem -- the one problem they are looking at. Often, due to lack of formal background in algorithm analysis and software development technique, they end up being just "code monkeys" and you can not rely on them to help you create a system which requires an understanding of "Software Engineering" and "Coding in the Large". Of course there are also B.S. C.S. individuals who managed to get through school and are worthless as well -- but the presence of the little piece of paper can be a filter if there are just too many resumes.	[reply]

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Re: Re: Re: Dispelling the Myth in The Outside World
by Sifmole (Chaplain) on Apr 30, 2002 at 13:51 UTC

I never got a degree in Comp Sci and it has never hurt me in the least. I just didn't want all the math. I would have had to take: Calc I, II, III, and IV, Numerical Analysis, Discreet Structures, Differential Equations, Probability and Statistics and one or two more.

Perhaps, to an employer attempting to weed their way through several hundred resumes see the fact that an individual did put forth the effort to work through these classes as a plus?

I have worked with many self-taught programmers, and many of them have been good; But there are also too many who are just that, "programmers". They can sling a bit of code to solve a problem -- the one problem they are looking at. Often, due to lack of formal background in algorithm analysis and software development technique, they end up being just "code monkeys" and you can not rely on them to help you create a system which requires an understanding of "Software Engineering" and "Coding in the Large".

Of course there are also B.S. C.S. individuals who managed to get through school and are worthless as well -- but the presence of the little piece of paper can be a filter if there are just too many resumes.

[reply]