"Learn Perl, but not only Perl. Learn 'C', Java, and a few others. Know when to use them, and don't become emotionally attached to a language. Learn how to implement common algorithms in all the languages you learn. Often you'll see how to write better code in one language by playing with another. "

Pure Genius... When you get more mature. Learn SQL too and how to Normalize databases. Get into OO concepts.

Very Good Points. I want to emphasize learning algorithms. Computer languages are tools and only tools. Perl is not the best choice or every application, but I've learned that it makes a great prototyping tool if I need develop an idea. Don't listen to language or Operating System bigots. They are giving out opinions, not facts. Best of Luck with Perl. "Let us go then, you and I. With the earth stretched out beneath the sky, like a patient etherized upon a table..." T.S. Eliot, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

I think that you make some very good points here, jcwren. The is a purpose for every language. I think that maybe thew key issue here is that the language adapts to your skill. What I mean by this is that if I become very, very good at Perl, I will be able to push Perl to do anything (aside from writing a bootloader or something) I want it to. I can definitely see this quality in Perl.

Another good point that you had was about the ability to make mistakes in other languages. I suppose one just has to be concious about what is going on behind the scenes if one is using a certain method or practice that has any significant impact on the program.

redmist

Perl can be a great first language to learn if you're not prone to the "you have a hammer and everything looks like a nail" trap. I have a friend of mine who's a brilliant sysadmin and a Perl guru who is not overly familiar with other programming languages. As far as he is concerned, the entire Web should be HTML3.2 and Perl. He is a Perl Zealot and this is a Bad thing.

I'm not suggesting that you face the same fate, but be forewarned that the advice that jcwren gave about learning other languages is more than just a good idea. If you don't, you only have a hammer in your toolbox. Forget the wrench, the pliers, or any other tool that's useful. Need to get that nut off that bolt? Hand me the hammer.

That being said, another reason I would suggest learning other languages is to appreciate what Perl offers. I've worked in a whole grab bag of different languages, some of them being so obscure I doubt most have heard of them (no, I'm not some computer God, I've just been tossed from project to project). None of those languages allowed me the syntax flexibility of Perl. Most of them didn't offer concepts like regexes, hashes, or $_. But then, they're often designed for different purposes for which the aforementioned tools may not be appropriate (though I think regex should be in virtually every language).

As for your two friends, I am curious as to how well they know Perl in comparison to other languages. I don't think you'll regret Perl as a first language, but you should regret it if it's your only language.

Update: I was thinking about when I first was learning VB (forgive me) and I was so excited about how easy it was to create GUI apps for Windows. Now, I look back and realize that I was actually so excited about being able to create a bug. (bah dum bumm, <cymbal|symbol crash>)

Hmmm... guess that last comment would be my entry into the obfuscated humor contest.

You make a good point with the hammer analogy. Thanks fer the link.

Well, they kind of have a point, but Perl is certainly a fine *first* language. The more languages you know, the stronger your skills will be in all of them. Having a C background, in particular, will make you a better perl programmer. C is more "low-level" and forces you to worry about things (e.g. pointers and memory allocation) that perl takes care of "behind the scenes." Once you have learned about such things, you gain a greater appreciation for all that perl really does, and how it makes it look easy while doing so :). Perl is great because you can make it as simple or as complex as you want. You can write good, working programs with a few simple keywords and concepts, yet you can still dive in deeper and deeper by eventually learning about modules, references, typeglobs, embedding perl in C (and C in perl), and eventually reading perlguts for pleasure and checking out the regex engine. :)

I think Perl is great. When I try to code C, lately, I find myself wishing for a garbage collection routine.

From a system admin point of view, I don't want to have to worry about compiling. I want a script that works quickly to save me a headache. If I want something more complex, perl can "scale" to that end of the spectrum. As the old saying goes: Perl makes easy things easier and impossible tasks possible.

Don't let code bigotry affect you. People have their favorites, and you will too. If you are going to be a philosophical programmer, you will be interested in the inner workings, but if you are going to be a practical programmer, you will be interested in making your code work.

J. J. Horner
Linux, Perl, Apache, Stronghold, Unix
jhorner@knoxlug.org http://www.knoxlug.org/

Perl doesn't enforce good habits on you unless you ask it to (-w, use strict), but most of the Perl gurus certainly do.

If you want to understand what's going on, get in the habit of reading good code. Check out CPAN modules, try to come up with your own solutions to posted questions, read about algorithms and do take some time to explore a few other languages here and there.

Once you see the same thing implemented three or four different ways (in different languages and by different people), the essentials will start to stick out, and you'll begin really understanding it.

Perl's a great language for beginners, because it's expressive, forgiving, powerful, and very scalable. You can do just about anything with it (though there are plenty of things you probably shouldn't), and you get the results back very quickly.

My advice is to keep learning Perl, but be prepared to branch off into other things if you want to be a serious programmer. The more tools you have in your belt, the better your solutions and the more problems you can handle.

My point: If you really want to see what is going on under the hood learn to program Assembler. And what too forgiving when you screw up. No it's not!

Didn't come with on the first version of this message for some unknown reason:
When One starts with programming I think it is important to see results fast because you get tired fast if you don't get to see the end result. IMHO. Learning to program isn't about learning what is "under the hood". It is about to get the computer what you want it to do!

No your not rambling. My native tongue was Finnish. I live in Sweden and speak Swedish fluently.

And as for my English. Well judge me by my writings if I'm any good.

As for computer languages. In order that I learned them.

1. Basic
2. Pascal
3. C
4. Visual Basic
5. C++
6. Java
7. Perl
8. Assembler
9. COBOL
All my previous knowledge shows when I programme something. As for the languages I have learned. Some of these languages I actually not a good at. But as for my alltime favorite. Perl of course.

When it comes to programming languages I'm a Jack-of-all-trades. -> master-of-none. But also this. I wouldn't have continued with it if no enjoyment was there. The only risk you take IMHO is picking a booring language for a first programming language.

Disadvantages to PERL? The addictiveness... The beatings will continue until morale raises.

Right now I'm rewriting a Fortran program in Perl and I've never seen Fortran before in my life. If it wasn't for a C background I think understanding fortran would be alot harder.

The reason for this is that you can't truly appreciate Perl's ease of use until you've encountered other (horrible) languages such as C.

But on the other hand, it does give you the basic required knowledge: variables, loops, if constructs and so on.

Good point. I don't think that I would appreciate all the neat things of Perl if I hadn't spent my time with C and C++.
The very first thing that made me like Perl were the pop and push functions. When I tried them out, i just set there with a silly smile on my face, thinking about the page of stack code in C++.

When you learn a new language, the idea is not to try to write the new language like you did the old. The idea is to apply high level concepts about the type of data and control structures. The example you cite has nothing to do with Perl vs 'C'. People who learn C++ have similiar complaints about going to 'C'.

Instead, think about how you would implement what you *don't* have, or how you would write code without that language feature. Trying to write Perl in 'C' is futile, just like trying to write BASIC in assembly, or Forth in Perl.

It's your learning technique that needs to be revised, not the order in which you learn the languages.

--Chris (who hates language and OS bigotry)

My background is the complete opposite. I've spent years coding 'C' (never was it fun) before learning Perl. There's no comparison. Perl's a breath of fresh air, it fun powerful and very quick. What more could you want?