Othello, the Moor of Venice
Act II. Scene III.

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The way to gain a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear.

— Socrates

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";

I have to disagree with this, due to the problems before concerning personality downvoting.

I feel that a system like this would be abused more than its intended use.

Users like Zombie merlyn haters anonymou might be inclined to -- merlyn's personal reputation node.

Instead, why not just mention the person on your homenode, or devise a system where a user can submit another user to the "Holy Mural" where their name (and the name of the person that suggested him or her) would remain for a day or so.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

John J Reiser
newrisedesigns.com

I have to disagree with this, due to the problems before concerning personality downvoting.

I didn't realize something like this had been done before. Alas, I've only been a part of the monastery for a very short time.

I feel that a system like this would be abused more than its intended use.

I do see the potential for some abuse but rather than discount the whole idea, I'd prefer to see suggestions on how to make such a system less susceptible to those who might make ill use of it. If users like merlyn haters anonymou (who has -12XP) can vote at all, there is probably room for improvement. Although your points about a different system are well taken, I'm still inclined to think that an extension of the current voting/experience system makes more sense than something entirely new.

The issue that I'm trying to address is well-defined. I would like to reward people when I witness them making an exceptional contribution via the CB.

Here are a couple suggestions which might help to mitigate potential problems:

• Only allow upvoting on the personal reputation node.
• Only make the personal reputation node available when someone has been active in the last X hours.
• Make a vote on the personal reputation node less likely to affect XP than normal nodes.

Can you think of any others?

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";

I didn't realize something like this had been done before.

Well, as far as I know, your "personal reputation node" is a unique idea.

I do see the potential for some abuse but rather than discount the whole idea, I'd prefer to see suggestions on how to make such a system less susceptible to those who might make ill use of it.

Nodes concerning downvoting: 169014 | 158629 | 102998 | 41442 | 187789

The problem lies therein. You cannot control how people vote. The XP system is designed to show approval of someone's posted knowledge by rating it ++ or --. By rating information, you get the general (voting) public's opinion on if this information is worthwhile. The levels (and benefits obtained from friar+) are only there to allow outsiders to help maintain the site. Granted, our fearless leader has put in a lot of effort to making PerlMonks what it is, but Tim Vroom can't possibly keep track of and fix every problem in Everything. The users that have been here from early on, that showed earnest interest in helping PM grow, became editors, pmdevs and gods. They weren't chosen by their reputation number, but by their social reputation and expressed desire to assist in keeping PerlMonks running.

I think your idea to show some appreciation to another monk is a wonderful idea, however, I don't think that it should be done using XP. Seeing my XP jump by 5 points don't really mean much to me, but when someone likes my post and either posts a reply or private messages me, I reap a greater benefit than a mere XP jump. Knowing that a fellow monk that, odds are, I've never met appreciates my assistance in some way makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. XP just doesn't do that.

My idea is not the best. It was merely an off-the-cuff example of some other means of displaying appreciation. I think, however, that expressing your gratitude or admiration in person (so to speak) would be much more flattering and acknowledgeable. Personally, seeing that five people ++ed my reputation node would mean nothing to me, despite the fact that someone either: liked my ideas/personality/rant-in-the-CB or felt like dropping a vote to use it up.

The two main reasons I must disagree with this is that (1) XP means absolutely nothing (i.e. XP + $1.00 = cup of coffee) and (2) voting would be anonymous. Now, I don't want personality contests and ego trips to run rampant across the Monastery, but the best way to show appreciation would be to openly show your gratitude towards another. It doesn't have to be public (in the form of a post), it could be as simple as a private message. Just like considering nodes, I feel that if someone is going to show appreciation or ++ a personal rep node, they should let their fellow monk know that they personally appreciate his or her work.

John J Reiser
newrisedesigns.com

I have to disagree with this, due to the problems before concerning personality downvoting.

Almost as bad as the "frontpaging a totally useless thread because you have an early standard response in it' problem isn't it ;-p

I figured this would come up.

I FP'ed this after my second reply, around midnight last night. This does seem very relevant, sauoq makes a strong argument, and my decision to frontpage this stems from the amount of articles previously written about personality voting.

Yes, I feel this is useful. No, I don't think I overstepped my bounds.

John J Reiser
newrisedesigns.com

Makeshifts last the longest.

How about you just say insert name here++? :-)

Actually, I don't think that should be encouraged. The CB is slow enough without 15 people chiming in to say so-and-so++ whenever so-and-so answers some random question correctly. Besides, this exact phenomenon was one of the reasons I avoided efnet/#perl most of the time. Lots of cliquish atta-boying for no good purpose. I think the ability to anonymously reward is an important component to avoiding that sort of thing.

As both you and newrisedesigns have pointed out, XP really means nothing. Let's extend that to say that node reputation means nothing. Well, the fact that they mean nothing doesn't hold up as an argument against this idea because if they truly mean nothing, then adding another way to get them certainly wouldn't hurt anything, right?

I think XP and node reputation do mean something. What they mean is neither clear nor universal across all monks or writeups. In any particular case, XP or node rep might be meaningless. In general, though, nodes with higher rep are more correct or more interesting or better represent community opinion. In general, monks with higher XP have contributed more in quantity or quality to the Monastery.

At an absolute minimum, the voting, experience, and reputation system means something because it is an integral part of this site that, at least partially, defines how this community interacts with itself. Frankly, I think it was a pretty cool idea and its existence really sets this site apart from many others.

So, if we assume they do mean something, does my idea dilute that meaning in any way? Does it discount votes or experience? I don't think it would. I hope that it would encourage more positive interaction between monks by way of the CB and thereby be an improvement to the Monastery.

Between my replies to you and newrisedesigns, I think I've defended the idea as much as I can. I guess I'll just wait to see how it fares in the court of Monk's opinion...

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";

This is actually not a new idea and has been in Everything2.com for ages. Since perlmonks.org also run on the same engine, it is not difficult to implement. This sort of action is called blessing and cursing and is only available to users of some level (can't remember which one, but somewhere pretty high). Let's say a user of certain level can issue one blessing or cursing every day to any other user. A blessing and cursing translates directly into XP change in everything2.com AFAIK.

I think it is a nice idea, especially if these powers are given at a certain point, let's say after reaching pontiff or bishop level. People who reach this sort of level are less likely to use it for abuse.

Muwahahahahahahahahahahaha

You could waste as many votes as you like until you run out, without gaining a voting bonus, and you could do it for whatever reason you want, cause you should vote on nodes based on their merits, not on your "feelings"

There is an ooold user attribute, which never got used here on perlmonks, it's called karma, and how fitting a name it is, I say we go for it

if( $votes ){
    $votes--;
    $karma += $vote;
}
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** The Third rule of perl club is a statement of fact: pod is sexy.

"The only way I could give them one is to find and upvote some random node of theirs that I wouldn't upvote otherwise."

You can view XP points from two sides: the personal experience and the reputation of a single node. Since nodes are the manifestations of ones personal motivation, knowledge and ability to share it, and since nodes are the very essence of this site, upvoting nodes is probably a better approach.

A nodes reputation can give hints to others, when they're in doubt of taking a node serious. Looking for nodes with highest reputation might also be interesting. However I see one problem with node reputation: It rather reflects the number of people reading and agreeing with it than its "true" quality. A short witty note in a discussion of high interest might earn a higher reputaion than a special program put to the catacombs.

So why not use your votes to balance that? Certainly most of us wrote some nodes they think of as undervoted. I'd therefor suggest to put ones "undervoted nodes" on home node. This would provide a simple way to vote for a person and balance node reputations at the same time.

^~Django
"Why don't we ever challenge the spherical earth theory?"

If simply thanking them in the chatterbox isn't enough for you, you could always:

/msg [clever_person]: Well put!  You should post that as a
meditation....
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--
F o x t r o t U n i f o r m
Found a typo in this node? /msg me
The hell with paco, vote for Erudil!

Well, yes and no. Think of the chatterbox as "speech" and any postings as "actions". The chatterbox is fairly ephemeral, and so anything can be gotten away with if no one is looking. Similarly, great responses/answers/discussion may occur in the chatterbox -- but if no one records them...

My point is that if XP means anything, perhaps it's really a measure of how the "actions" of perl monks are measured by other monks. Perhaps XP is an inappropriate way to measure how clever/useful/intelligent you are in the chatterbox.

Perhaps, if one's "words" are great, you should post them yourself in a Meditation or encourage them to do the same, so that others can see them.

At that point, you're judging and voting on a node.

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You are what you think.