I know there's been a lot of talk about moderation here, but I'm really concerned about the fine line that falls between agreeing with a post and thinking the writer makes an astute point. Now I may be wrong (I remember it happened once before) but I just ++'d a post that I thought made a good point about adding an 'Improve my code' section to the site, and the nett reputation became 0!

Because of this I went and re-read the post, maybe I had misread it. But no, the post was well written and made a good argument for the addition of the section - even if you didn't want this section to appear on the site.

Maybe there needs to be a second 'poll' style thing where either posters can opt to add a survey or there's always a survey there for people to agree or disagree with the post. This would appear below the post and would show the results without need for a vote. This would remove the temptation to down-vote a post just because you don't agree with it. And it would allow posters to guage how people felt about their idea (rather than about their post).

Be careful when moderating that you're not polling.
Cheers!
Rick

  • Comment on It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling

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Re: It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling
by thelenm (Vicar) on Jan 23, 2003 at 22:17 UTC
    In general, I use my votes as you do (i.e., I will ++ a node I disagree with, if it raises a good point, promotes a useful discussion, etc.). But I think one of the great things about the moderation system here is that everyone uses their moderation votes however they see fit. I'm not even aware of any "official" guidelines about how to use votes. This may cause some ambiguity about what a ++/-- vote or a node's overall reputation actually means (if it means anything at all), but it also allows everyone the freedom to express their opinion in their own way. So anyway, even though I don't usually downvote nodes just because I disagree with them, I think it's fine that others use their votes this way.

    -- Mike

    --
    just,my${.02}

Re: It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling
by Coruscate (Sexton) on Jan 23, 2003 at 23:16 UTC

    For the record, I believe the post you must have ++'ed was mine. There are several reasons as to why I am not discouraged by the fact that somebody felt the need to give me a negative vote there: one, I didn't mention the 'improve code' section idea until afterwards in an update. I can't really recall, but I think the negative vote was there before I did the update. Second of all, each person has the right to vote how they see fit. Every person has set for themselves a different level as to what defines 'a great post', what is a 'good post', what is a 'neither here nor there' post, what is a 'meager post', and what is a 'horribly content-less post'. On top of this, each user draws the line as to where a ++ or a -- is given. Some give a ++ vote to the 'great post' and 'good post', while not using votes for anything else. Others give ++ for great, good, and neither here nor there posts, while giving -- to meager and content-less ones. Then you have the people who even ++ meager posts, because they are firm believers that any contribution is a worthy one. True, some people might walk around throwing --'s at everything, just ignore them. Besides, if I lost 1-2 XP for that post, I'm sure it won't damage me horribly in the long run :)


    "User error. Replace user and press any key to continue."

Re: It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling
by talexb (Chancellor) on Jan 23, 2003 at 22:26 UTC

    Assigning a ++ or -- for me is the sum of a number of things:

    • Is the post useful/informative or is it a waste of time?
    • Has the writer (whether posting a question or an answer) done a little research, or is there no visible effort?
    • Do I strongly agree or disagree?

    If I can't really decide one way or the other (which is most of the time) I don't vote at all. I rarely get through all of the votes I'm issued in a day.

    --t. alex
    Life is short: get busy!
Re: It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling
by sauoq (Abbot) on Jan 24, 2003 at 00:46 UTC

    As I understand it, "moderation" includes the act of approving nodes, moving unapproved nodes between sections, considering nodes for edits or deletion, and voting keep, edit, or delete on considered nodes.

    Upvoting and downvoting nodes is not moderation.

    There is really no correct way to vote. People have different strategies. For some voting, voting is an expression of agreement or disagreement. For others, it is hero worship or revenge. For others, it is a judgement of accuracy or style. All we can be sure of is that the majority opinion of what it should be is inherent in what it is.

    -sauoq
    "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
    
(kudra) Re: It's a fine line, but Moderation is not Polling
by kudra (Vicar) on Jan 24, 2003 at 17:00 UTC
    Maybe the general mood has changed since voting guidelines was written, but I believe it is still acceptable to downvote ideas one does not agree with which are posted to discussion.

    Of course, it's also acceptable to upvote a node you don't agree with but which you consider well-written or thoughtful.

    In short, as others have already said, spend your votes as you like and others will do the same.

    I disagree that we need a polling mechanism. We have the voting booth, although nobody would claim the results are for purposes other than amusement. But the fact is, that whether something gets implemented or not is probably going to depend upon the opinion of a few key people, probably the ones who will have to do the work of implementing it.

    Perlmonks isn't a democracy (an unfortunate post not in need of further downvoting, but the resulting discussion explains why it isn't and why you shouldn't expect it--not that I mean to suggest that the polling booth proposal carried with it the suggestion that everything should be decided on the basis of votes, only to forestall any movement in that direction), nor do I think it should be one.

    This is not to say that the opinion of everyone else using the site will be ignored, because I am quite sure that posts are read before decisions are made on controversial topics. So, if you want to express your opinion, post--even if it means risking downvotes.