On a different note, I think i should explain why im even bothering to write this. To me the "M$ DO$" betrays a contempt that is dangerous. Whatever you personally think about Win32, the fact is that it is successful, popular, and generally speaking very good at what it sets out to do. The fact that what it is intended to do, and what you want it to do are different is a completely seperate matter. Win32 should be the subject of study and analysis, its strengths should be emulated and its mistakes avoided. *NIX and open source will never replace Win32 in the business and average home until its supporters start taking it seriously.

(I should say that many many people in the open source community do take Win32 very seriously. If it was open sourced tomorrow and MS disappeared it would still be ticking years from now. In fact it would probably do very very well.)

--- demerphq
my friends call me, usually because I'm late....

I guess it's somewhat accurate to use the word 'contempt,' and to some point I agree with you. At some points I think there is way too much government regulation in some businesses. On the other hand, Enron and such have recently shown that there's not enough government accountability some times. Do I think the government should say to Microsoft, "You've got too much money and we've dealt with the cigarette companies already, so we're look to you for a quick litigation buck?" No, I don't think the government should intervene in business as much as it does.

Windows and (MS in general) does do somethings well (marketting being at the top of the list). Of course if I had a dime for everytime my screen faded to purple I could have easily paid for the legally licensed MS products that I use. That's not the point, though, of 'this M$ DO$ trip' that I am on. The embedded '$' is just about the greed of the business. Some artists draw because they love it. Some artists draw because they need to eat. A movie we saw recently said (roughly), "Don't you think that garbage man is in it for the money cause he sure ain't in it for the garbage?" Does Microsoft have a right to be a money-hungry monopoly that steals Stacker code and practices illegal convolusion? Sure, if they want.

You also pointed out that those who write should take the best that Windows has to offer, use it, and reject the rest. That's really what open source and extreme programming are all about.

I can be civil, though. This is a community, after all. I can refrain from calling M$ M$ if it will help the harmony. MS it is.

Thanks--Petras

This is a community, after all. I can refrain from calling M$ M$ if it will help the harmony. MS it is.

Civil is good. :-) Thanks.

You also pointed out that those who write should take the best that Windows has to offer, use it, and reject the rest. That's really what open source and extreme programming are all about.

Well, I have two thoughts. First as long as one allows oneself to feel any contempt for the company and it products I dont think that one can consider oneself to be objective about what Windows does well. (I use "one" so as to be clear this is general comment.) You say marketing is one of them, wheras I consider this to be superficial. I would say Office and responsiveness to boring old business oriented requirements, along with UI consistency and VB automation of most applications (security issues aside,) would be their chief strengths. We could debate such things for a long time though.... My second though is about extreme programming. I see no reason why such an approach should be confined to open source. I would be unsuprised to learn that MS had experimented with it, if not adapted it where it made sense to them.

No, I don't think the government should intervene in business as much as it does.

Personally I see no reason why the US governement shouldnt force MS to open source the versions of the OS that were built during the period that they were exploiting their virtual-monopoly. To me it seems like a sensible and equitable response. The playing ground would become level then. MS would still have the opportunity to innovate, but the rest of the world would have a chance to compete. Which ultimately would act as a huge stimulus to the PC market.

Of course if I had a dime for everytime my screen faded to purple I could have easily paid for the legally licensed MS products that I use.

I assume you are on a Windows box from the 9x line. This happens far far less often on NT and W2k, and I have been told that it is similar with XP. ME has a particular reputation (that my limited exposure concurs with) for being an abomnation. If you are programming seriously either go *nix or go NT.

Cheers,

--- demerphq
my friends call me, usually because I'm late....