in reply to Polyglot Challenges

Update: In response to some of the other posts in the discussion, let me say that Perl's English keywords are the smallest problem (or none at all). Some people will feel stressed already when they have to use English variable names, though. And then, when it goes on to comments, documentation, literature, community (PerlMonks!), it is much harder for people whose English skills are not up to par. That's why I think it is too short-sighted to say "The few English words in Perl syntax shouldn't be a problem". /Update

 

(and unfortunately a native Java speaker)

Does that mean you were raised in a jar? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Unfortunately, here in Germany most people's English skills are still more based on what they learned in school rather than first-hand contact with native speakers. That's why you will find a wide range of ways to cope with the English world of programming.

For myself, I have long ago adopted using English language only for code (including comments). I find it neater to just use one language at a time, rather than mixing German and English throughout. (I cringe when I see code with German variable names.) But then, I have been in the fortunate position to meet native speakers of English at an early age, and I have communicated on English-speaking mailing lists for years, so it is not hard for me at all. I see the same thing in other programming enthusiasts (nerds? :)).

On the other hand, there are lots of people that aren't fortunate enough to have that kind of background. When in my first year at University, students doing the software engineering course were required to write their comments in English, and it was hard for most of them. Many of them struggled to document their code in a sensible way. Of course, they didn't have much experience on the Internet, with Open Source etc. So far, I've only been talking about code, so you can imagine how much more difficult it is with documentation, newsgroups etc.

So yes, it is hard for a lot of people. Especially when you look beyond the cliché of the 25-year old programmer that hasn't yet outgrown puberty :). There's a number of people that want to learn about programming at the age of 30, 40 or 50, and it's even harder for them. Fortunately, you can get German translations for most programming books.

And now for something completely different... English terms in daily life

Incidentially, learning about other foreign languages (I learned three in school, which is quite normal for German higher education, forgot most of it (except English), which is also quite normal, and learnt some Chinese later) helped me a lot to appreciate my understanding of my native tongue, German. American culture has brought a lot of English expressions to Germany, even in places where it's total unnecessary. After spending some time in an English-speaking country, my need for using English terms for "coolness" was totally gone (even though I really like to use English), and I now cringe when I hear some of the weird expressions English-craving Germans use. Do yourself a favour and check out Invented English words in German for examples like "Body Bag" (bag carried around the body) or "Handy" (mobile phone).

And now for something completely different... native language in research

Just thought I'll mention it -- the other day I read an interesting article about the role of native language in research. The author compared the number of IEEE fellows in France and Germany, and found out that while Germany has a higher number of IEEE members than France, France has a far higher number of IEEE fellows (ie., distinguished researchers). He took this as an indicator that France excels more at research. One of the reasons he gave is that many French researches have more opportunities to publish their articles in French and then translate them to English later, whereas most German researches (in CS) immediatley publish in English. His theory is that thinking and writing in your native language allows you to be more creative. Might be a bit far-fetched, but it is imaginable that immediate expression in a foreign tongue can be a case of premature optimization.

Oh well. Has anybody managed to read all of this? Sorry for the long rant. :)

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Re: Re: Polyglot Challenges
by demerphq (Chancellor) on Apr 21, 2003 at 17:03 UTC

    For myself, I have long ago adopted using English language only for code (including comments).

    Interesting. You are not the first German person I have heard who has said that. Being a Canadian working in German I occasionally come accross code that is written in german. I find it very strange to see german words and abbreviations intermixed with the english of the underlying langauge.

    I suspect that there are relationships between cognitive models that are beneficial for computing (and indeed most likely many other fields as well) and cognitive models that are beneficial for the language we speak. It seems to me that in the history of computing there are a disproportionate number of Germanic speakers (including English). While this could be accident of opporuntiuty I personally suspect not. On an off note, it also make me suspect that we will see the Arabic nations, historically very strong in mathematics and computation, achieve a great deal once the conditions are right. Lets not forget that Algorithm is an arabic word, and the numbers that we use are as well.


    ---
    demerphq

    <Elian> And I do take a kind of perverse pleasure in having an OO assembly language...

      I find it very strange to see german words and abbreviations intermixed with the english of the underlying langauge.

      I see you know what I mean :). Usually, the more formal knowledge and experience a programmer has, the less he will use non-English language in his code.

      I suspect that there are relationships between cognitive models that are beneficial for computing (...) and cognitive models that are beneficial for the language we speak

      I do think this is quite true. The language we use shapes our thoughts. Another example are Indian languages; I've heard Hindi has a rather mathematical structure as well and I definitely can see it in the Indians that I know. These are all just tendencies, of course. Just as growing up in a family of musicians doesn't make you a musician automatically -- but in a lot of cases, it helps.

      I'm not sure about the disproportionate number of German speakers in computing. However, what does come to mind is that we both have a strong history in philosophy (as diverse as Luther, Kant, Nietzsche and Marx) and in construction of calculation machines (lots of people messing around with these in Germany, e.g. Philipp Matthäus Hahn in the 17th century, and up to Konrad Zuse, who built the first binary digital computer).

      I don't find the habit of mixing languages disturbing. It looks a bit ridiculous - but it might be quite usefull. With it you have much more expressive power than when you stick strictly to English.

      That said I would not recommend it - since there is rarely the situation where your code will be read only by people speaking your language.

        Yes, for example having the variables and code in an English-like form and the comments in another language entirely. This is useful when the docs are supposed to be written in the comment language.

        --
        Allolex