in reply to Perl Certified!

This is a reply for every one.

I think certifications of that sort are geneneraly overrated
I know that I put to many things for the test, but I think that the certified need to be good, or don't make sence! The best thing of Perl is that the user is free to learn for the test, since the information about Perl is free.

I already know what I am capable of doing with Perl. Why do I need a piece of paper to prove it?
You don't need to prove to your self, but to other peoples. How an employer will know that you are good or not for what it want?

I would have excluded Perl installation and Apache configuration from the certification, since it's really sysadmin's job and can be tricky sometimes.
I think that know how to put Perl in some machine is important for any Perl developer. Can be a sysadmin job, but a Perl developer can't be dependent of a sysadmin, and need to know how Perl works in the enverioment that he was using to make a good job!

My Idea was to make a certification for high level Perl programers, but other levels of certification can exist. But I think that a good certification can't be easy, you can't show only the basics.

I know that certification world is ugly, but we need that for us! To tell to the world that Perl programers are good. And since Perl have the Perl community, we can chose how the certification will be, and don't make a market about this, using the money to the Perl community or Open Source projects. And I think that a hard test will tell that the certification is good, not the money that you have to pay, this is why I think that it can be free, and you can make it how many times you want, you just need to be good get an A in the test!

I think that the test can be free, you just need to make a donation of any amount of money each time that you make the test. And the certification can have the basic level where the user know just the Perl syntax, the medle, and the high level where it know ate least all the basic resources of Perl.

As an employer I need Perl certification to find good programers, and I know that Perl programers want good jobs at Perl. We can do that with certification, but we don't need to make the certification process in the ugly way.

Graciliano M. P.
"The creativity is the expression of the liberty".

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Re: Re: Perl Certified! (for every one)
by hv (Prior) on Apr 25, 2003 at 01:17 UTC

    I think a large part of the problem here is the breadth of applicability of perl - you can be an expert perl programmer, without even touching (let alone learning to expert level) the use of substantial parts of the language.

    For example, I'd rate myself as an excellent perl programmer, but I've never used formats. Nor have I ever used perl on a Windows or Mac platform. I've written threaded applications, but not in perl. I've never written any XS code except for testing purposes.

    However, I've been able to gain employment with my perl skills, because I've been able to show that in any area that might be required I know how to acquire the skills I need if I don't already have them.

    The point, then, is that anyone hiring perl programmers needs to consider what they need them for, to decide from that what they insist any new programmer must know before starting, and then to devise a means of determining (probably, I guess, by way of a test) whether a candidate knows the prerequisites and can show some ability to learn new things.

    Few if any employers need a programmer that is an expert in every aspect of the language and deployment of perl. Any certification that did not take into account your specific needs must, I feel, either certify too few people or too many to be of any help.

    Hugo
[reply]
      Another good node had the idea to get certification by areas, not by level. Make the certification for Web, XS, language, etc... Since the certification will be cheap, but hard!

      Well I just put in the list what I need from the Perl programmer in my projects...

      Graciliano M. P.
      "The creativity is the expression of the liberty".

[reply]
Finding good Perl developers (was Perl Certified!)
by adrianh (Chancellor) on Apr 27, 2003 at 23:38 UTC
    As an employer I need Perl certification to find good programers, and I know that Perl programers want good jobs at Perl. We can do that with certification, but we don't need to make the certification process in the ugly way

    I think the question on how to find good Perl developers is an interesting one. As you may have guessed by now I don't think certification is the answer with Perl in it's current state :-)

    My tips would be:

    • Accept that it will be harder than finding a good developer in a more popular language. Double your normal estimates for time needed.
    • Advertise in the right place. jobs.perl.org is the most obvious. Don't rely on a generic recruiter.
    • Bonus points for people with CPAN modules and community involvement, but don't ignore those who don't contribute.
    • Make the wording on the job advert specific and blunt. If you need somebody with good OO perl don't just say "OO Perl", say "Absolute requirement: must provide evidence of ability to write and maintain reusable object-oriented perl modules. Experience of Class::MakeMethods an advantage." Make it completely clear in the advert that they will not get the job if they cannot do what you need. Don't be shy of spending money on a larger advert. It will save you time in filtering poor CVs.
    • Set a pre-interview test. I had some success combining a few moderately sneaky questions (e.g. "What's the difference between $foo->method and method($foo)?") with a "review this code" open question.

    Any more?

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