in reply to Re: A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl?
in thread A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl?

Maybe... Would it still be if the operators used the names TheDamian suggested (for the following two cases)?

$x =min $x, $y; # p5 $x ?>:= $y; # my half-assed notion:) $x min= $y; # p6+ $x =max $x, $y; # p5 $x ?<:= $y; # Mine $x max= $y; # p6+

The most recent situation where I encountered this was

for ( 0 .. $#{ $hash{$set}{data} } ) { $hash{$set}{min} = $hash{$set}{min} < $hash{$set}{data}[$_] ? $hash{$set}{min} : $hash{$set}{data}[$_]; }

which starkly demonstrates the problem. Contrast that with

$hash{$set}{min} ?<:= $hash{$set}{data}[$_] for 0 .. $#{ $hash{$set}{d +ata} };

Which is easier to read?


Examine what is said, not who speaks.
"Efficiency is intelligent laziness." -David Dunham
"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." -Richard Buckminster Fuller

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Re: Re: Re: A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl?
by hardburn (Abbot) on May 19, 2003 at 15:15 UTC
    for ( 0 .. $#{ $hash{$set}{data} } ) { $hash{$set}{min} = $hash{$set}{min} < $hash{$set}{data}[$_] ? $hash{$set}{min} : $hash{$set}{data}[$_]; }

    I personally find the above solution easier to read. However, since this is in a loop, and regular ? : evaluates the data twice, your proposed operator could be considerably faster in some cases. Naturally, the premature optimization alarms are ringing here, so I'm going to stop typing now (:

    ----
    I wanted to explore how Perl's closures can be manipulated, and ended up creating an object system by accident.
    -- Schemer

    Note: All code is untested, unless otherwise stated

Re: Re: Re: A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl?
by zby (Vicar) on May 19, 2003 at 15:14 UTC
    $x =min $x, $y; # p5
    For me that's perfect. A function min - thats just three chars, you add = and what you have is the same number of chars (for golfers), much more clear than ?<:=, and more flexible - it can handle lists instead of just pairs.
    Update: Sorry this was just just a temporary blurr of my consiousness. It did not address the arguments by BrowserUk.
Re: Re: Re: A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl?
by hv (Prior) on May 20, 2003 at 04:26 UTC

    I think you should at least consider writing such code more like:

    my $set = $hash{$set}; my $data = $set->{data}; for (@$data) { $set->{min} = $set->{min} < $_ ? $set->{min} : $_; }

    Hugo
Re^3: A set of new operators. In keeping with the design of Perl? (aliasing)
by Aristotle (Chancellor) on May 21, 2003 at 15:38 UTC
    use List::Util qw(min); $hash{$set}{min} = min @{$hash{$set}{data}};
    I love that module. Thank goodness it's in the core since 5.8. Of course that doesn't address your beef, but in this case I think you're looking for aliasing, not a condensed form of the ternary. Some of that is available with Perl5 already, had you phrased your loop differently:
    for (@{$hash{$set}{data}}) { $hash{$set}{min} = $hash{$set}{min} < $_ ? $hash{$set}{min} : $_; }
    And in Perl6 (I'm probably getting the syntax wrong) it'd be something like:
    my $min := $hash{$set}{min}; for(@{%hash{$set}{data}}) { $min = $min < $_ ? $min : $_ }

    Makeshifts last the longest.

      List::Utils is great and was one the reasons I got around to upgrading. It replaced about half the routines in my personal utils module. The problem is that I need the min and max of each dataset, and iterating each dataset twice isn't ideal with huge datasets.

      I agree with your reduction when the array is of a reasonable size, but each dataset is 786,432 elements, there are several datasets and the operation isn't a one-off, so building a list in the for loop is kind of expensive I think? Hence the choice to use the lazy evaluation of the range op in a for loop to index the elements. That problem goes away once we get lazy-evaluating in P6.

      It still irks me that I have to type the operands, to what is essentially a binary operation, twice each, but it seems I'm the only one who sees that as a problem, and I don't relish causing, let alone being involved in, a 3 year p5p flame fest which I was told above is what it took to get ||= implemented:(.

      It's the same "I know that everything is available in the cpu for the processing required" type ire that I feel about the need to do

      my $n; my ($div, $rem) = ( int($n/10), $n % 10 );

      as I pontificated on at A better mod (%) operator?. It's not a "performance thing",

       my ($div, %rem) = $n %% 10;

      just seems cleaner. That I know that both values are available in the registers after either / or % means that even hiding the double division within a sub or overloading % or whatever still doesn't satisfy my sense of "once and once only:)


      Examine what is said, not who speaks.
      "Efficiency is intelligent laziness." -David Dunham
      "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." -Richard Buckminster Fuller
        As for the single-pass problem, you can do that too:
        use List::Util qw(reduce); @hash{$set}{qw(min max)} = @{ reduce { return [ $a, $b ] if 'ARRAY' ne ref $a; return $a->[0] < $b ? [ $b, $a->[1] ] : $a->[1] > $b ? [ $a->[0], $b ] : $a; } @{$hash{$set}{data}} };
        Admittedly more hoop jumping here. Of course that doesn't address the memory problem, but in that case I'd still opt for a counter in a while loop instead. (In keeping with the corresponding use of while and each to traverse a hash.)
        for my $min ($hash{$set}{min}) { my $data = $hash{$set}{data}; my $i = -1; while(++$i < @$data) { $min = $min < $data->{$i} ? $min : $data->{$i}; } }

        Makeshifts last the longest.