Abigail-II wrote:

Bugfixes? If the code is stupid, and I say "Oh, you brilliant mind, what a wonderful code you've written", there's little chance the code will ever be fixed.

Horns of a false dilemma: it's not the case that the choices are either being blunt or lying. There is nothing wrong with honesty, but if my intent is really to communicate with someone, then that intent is not served by potentially raising barriers to communication by putting them on the defensive.

Consider "that code is awful and you shouldn't be doing it that way." versus "here's a better way to do this." If someone really wants to learn, they will learn either way. If someone is likely to get defensive, the first way will inhibit learning. Thus, if I really want to help someone, I don't start out by potentially making them mad.

Cheers,
Ovid

New address of my CGI Course.
Silence is Evil (feel free to copy and distribute widely - note copyright text)

Consider "that code is awful and you shouldn't be doing it that way." versus "here's a better way to do this."

Now you are assuming that that is either or. Many of my posts that are considered blunt (of course, tons of people consider anything I write to be blunt anyway) will also either show a better way, or have a pointer to it.

Thus, if I really want to help someone, I don't start out by potentially making them mad.

You do it your way, I do it my way. My advice on this and other forums is free, and people are free to ignore it. I'm willing to help people (but I'm not willing to spoonfeed them); I don't charge; I don't expect anything in return. But I will do it my way.

Abigail

I disagree with the basic premise that your note seems to be implying: it's a technical forum, so it's OK to treat people disrespectfully. That logic is used by bullies in many different contexts: It's music class, so it's OK to yell at the students. Or, "It's football, dammit. It's supposed to hurt." No context makes shoddy treatment of people OK.

As to "I'm not doing to others....", the tone of your writeup contradicts the notion that you take criticism well. "If I write stupid code, please say so", but we should not say anything about using an obnoxious tone? According to your note, it would be OK for me to put you down and insult you because I disagree with what you wrote. It would be easy, but it would still be wrong.

It's your choice how to treat people, but please don't try to justify it by saying, "It's Perl, being thoughtful of others doesn't enter the equation." When human beings interact, mutual respect is always important, regardless of the topic being discussed.

There's a difference between adressing problems of the code and addressing the problems of the coder. Which is I think what Ovid was referring to.

For example, if I make a simple mistake in my code and you tell me it's because I need a haircut and a shave -- is that productive? Would it be better if you insult my intelligence or my education? I can, however, understand criticizing someone for not trying, and I can understand criticizing code for a multitude of reasons.

I can tell you (this is a general "you", by the way) that you're wrong without being arrogant or abusive about it. But if you can't do the same for me then I don't think it's me that needs to grow up.

Bugfixes? If the code is stupid, and I say "Oh, you brilliant mind, what a wonderful code you've written", there's little chance the code will ever be fixed.

Sorry, I fail to see what's wrong with a bit of honesty. If I say code is wrong when it is wrong, and I praise code when it's good, it's easy to know when I make a compliment, and when I think the code can be improved. From someone who's always nicey-nicey, you'd never know.

Better ways to communicate:
"This code doesn't meet the requirements."
"The way this code is written is difficult for me to read."

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Nothing is too wonderful to be true -- Michael Faraday

<pedantic>

Code is not stupid, stupid is an insult that applies directly to person you are addressing.

It's perfectly good English to refer to a thing as stupid without implying anything about the things author. Webster's has "Resulting from, or evincing, stupidity; formed without skill or genius; dull; heavy; -- said of things." as one of the definitions.

Saying "This code is stupid" is most often heard as "You are stupid".

All too true - but the problem may not be with the author. I can (and do :-) write stupid code on occasion, that doesn't imply that I am stupid.

Too often people think they are being "brutally honest" while in fact they are simply poor communicators, or to be "brutally honest", they are being stupid.

They might be poor communicators. They might not be stupid.

</pedantic>