(Monday Night Monkball: Recap) RE: Monastery Mores

> I'm afraid that people will find this post ambiguous or superfluous because it doesn't directly stake out a position on, attempt to resolve, or even address some epic conflict that they personally care about.

I found your post to be a thoughtful read, full of much good advice for everyone here to follow, and not superfluous at all. One doesn't have to take a stand or choose sides to resolve a problem, on the contrary: the best mediators are often those who remain the most neutral.

> ...I don't know if the amount backstabbing, bitterness, and open hostility on Perl Monks is typical...

Actually, the only place I really have an issue with what you're saying here is this. The events that tilly has relayed may or may not be true. The site admin, St. vroom checked the voting records and apparently this did not happen. Our happy medium, neshura (read her stance on this particular issue) has been investigating with tilly and vroom. I have not heard any further news from her at this point, but hopefully (hint, hint) she'll post an update soon. Ozymandias has made some very good arguments against (I hate to say 'against', but he truly is playing the role of Devil's Advocate) tilly's case here and here.

To summarize most of the above linked posts, tilly feels singled out and purposefully voted down because of a post he made in response to mt2k's Goodbye! post. Mathematically speaking, however, it is very difficult for one person to make much of an impact because of how the voting system is set up. However, if such a thing truly happened, it is indicative of the growing clique atomosphere (btrott has an excellent read about this) and 'ill-health' you have described for us. This is no doubt a Bad Thing. However, due to the growing user base, and The Way People Are, I do not believe there is much we can do about it. Or even, for that matter, that "we" SHOULD do something about it.

While it's true there was an issue with merlyn (read "Running with scissors") last week, that has long since been resolved and we are very happy to have him back and hackin'. There is also currently an issue with mt2k, and who knows where that stands.

> Here's hoping that this post will generate comment from all the Perl Monks, and that we will be civil while discussing civility.

Constructive, yes. Civil remains to be seen. :-) My only regret so far is that you posted this as Anonymous Monk, so I have no idea who you are!

Alakaboo

Comment on (Monday Night Monkball: Recap) RE: Monastery Mores

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RE: (Monday Night Monkball: Recap) RE: Monastery Mores by tilly (Archbishop) on Aug 09, 2000 at 19:54 UTC
You have incorrectly stated my position. I responded in the goodbye thread after I felt singled out and purposefully voted down. I responded because several people were privately telling me that I was far from the first person this had happened to. In that post I made that as clear as I knew how to. I knew when I posted that that it would be controversial. In fact my first action after submitting was to go to the chatterbox and type: `/me just made a sad situation worse, hopefully for some long-term bene +fit...` [download] As for neshura, I indeed had a conversation with her. One thing she thought would be good would be for me to show up on IRC. I mentioned firewall issues. I wound up that conversation with saying that I needed some time to reply to her post since my reply would answer a number of things she was asking. My reply is at RE (4): Goodbye! (regarding the shadow conspiracy). I have not heard back from her since posting that, but I expect to and I look forward to continuing that discussion either in public or in private and getting her feedback. Incidentally one question has to be whether I am lying about what happened. Well I have said that I will not name names, so it comes down to a question of how much personal integrity I have. Of course I do not have enough history here to answer that. OTOH anyone who wants can follow the link to IWETHEY where I have a substantial accumulated history and spend as long as you want looking at things that BTilly has said there. Heck, you could even post there to get opinions on my honesty! I am confident that the reports you will get should lay in a deep, dark grave any doubt that I would make something like this up. Now the people who gave me their take on the situation may have been mistaken either on their details or the correct interpretations of past events. I am in a worse position than most to decide that. But I am not making stuff up. Really.	[reply] [d/l]

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RE: (Monday Night Monkball: Recap) RE: Monastery Mores
by tilly (Archbishop) on Aug 09, 2000 at 19:54 UTC

I responded in the goodbye thread after I felt singled out and purposefully voted down. I responded because several people were privately telling me that I was far from the first person this had happened to. In that post I made that as clear as I knew how to. I knew when I posted that that it would be controversial. In fact my first action after submitting was to go to the chatterbox and type:

/me just made a sad situation worse, hopefully for some long-term bene
+fit...
[download]

neshura

RE (4): Goodbye! (regarding the shadow conspiracy)

Incidentally one question has to be whether I am lying about what happened. Well I have said that I will not name names, so it comes down to a question of how much personal integrity I have. Of course I do not have enough history here to answer that. OTOH anyone who wants can follow the link to IWETHEY where I have a substantial accumulated history and spend as long as you want looking at things that BTilly has said there. Heck, you could even post there to get opinions on my honesty!

I am confident that the reports you will get should lay in a deep, dark grave any doubt that I would make something like this up. Now the people who gave me their take on the situation may have been mistaken either on their details or the correct interpretations of past events. I am in a worse position than most to decide that. But I am not making stuff up. Really.

[reply]
[d/l]