in reply to (jcwren) RE: RE: Something I wanted to share with the group.
in thread Something I wanted to share with the group.

Each one is not hand-coded and tuned, because it just doesn't matter. If you want to take the time in your favorite editor, and hand-type each and every HTML tag, and make sure it's perfectly optimized, then you clearly have more time than I do.
In my experience, I can hand-code HTML far easier than I can deal with an "editor." The HTML will come out clean and nicely indented, allowing much more efficient changes and extensions later. It might be different if I were tasked with 300 plain HTML files with no code, no functionality.

However, I think you may have missed my point. I am addressing the "people who don't want to or shouldn't have to learn the intricacies of HTML." This may be acceptable for something simple, like HTML creation. But, do you really want people using "automatic" Perl code generators on your servers? Those people who don't want to learn the intricacies of Perl are the very people who should be forced to do so, or ask for professional assistance.

Concerning the "extra colspan," I am referring to HTML that is a few K when hand-coded, but 40-50K from some editor. They tend to put gratuitous font tags around every element, create nested tables for no reason, duplicate style information and colors repeatedly and redundantly, over and over. This mess is far from maintainable, except in another editor, where the junk may be compounded even further.

On a 10Mbps network, 50K files will download quickly. Are we willing to inflict that kind of wastefulness on an unsuspecting world (who likely do not have OC3 connections to the internet)? How long do you like to wait while Netscrape renders a pile of highly inefficient HTML? Bad HTML is a more serious problem than simple download times.

Russ
Brainbench 'Most Valuable Professional' for Perl

  • Comment on RE:(3) Something I wanted to share with the group.

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RE: RE:(3) Something I wanted to share with the group.
by toadi (Chaplain) on Aug 18, 2000 at 12:07 UTC
    Well, I'm not the guy telling others what to do, but I will say it anyway.

    Here in the office dreamweaver is used. This is mainly because of there are people updating the content who know no HTML. But this is changed with a content-managment tool.
    But The most web-developers here also use DreamWeaver and accuse me of being stupid using a plain text-editor. But hey I'm a fast coder. I code my pages faster then them I know what I'm doing and most of the time I see what I get in my browser. Who said I type each tag? Not me I know how to use Copy&paste effective and fast.
    I got no real probelm solving HTML problems, I just have to look at my code to see the problem and most of the time the DW guys come to me to solve HTML problems and I see yuckie code. One of the things I learned early is to format my code. Well, I do this with all my languages even HTML. This makes debugging often simpler.

    So my point is that when you've got code-generators they should at least format the code nicely.

    --
    My opinions may have changed,
    but not the fact that I am right

RE: Buzzcutbuddha (It depends on the editor) Editor Created Code vs Hand Crafted
by buzzcutbuddha (Chaplain) on Aug 18, 2000 at 16:36 UTC
    I personally use Cold Fusion Studio and handwrite my code, but by the same token, I work with developers who use Macromedia because they can tell the developer to create the page for x.x browser and to use x.0 version of HTML and x.x version of Javascript, and it puts out pretty good code.
    The editors have their place in development, as long as it does not substitute thinking out your code and your goals (or thinking in general for that matter), which should be optimization and maintainability, etc.

      >they can tell the developer to create the page for x.x browser

      That so goes against the whole idea of the web in the first place. HTML should never cater itself to a particular browser. To a particular ([psuedo|meta]\-)?language perhaps, but never to a browser.

      </soapbox> :)
        I agree, and I try to make my code work across all platforms, but when you have huge multinational companies coming in as clients and they say we want this to work best with AOL 4.0 because that's what most of our customers use, eh, ok, you got it.

        In reality, they sign my paycheck. I always fight to make cross browser code the standard, but being pointy-haired managers, they really don't seem to care.