That they're doing dogfood now, does not mean they couldn't be in software development in two years from now. Stranger things have happened.

The most famous example of this of course being Apple - in 1981, Apple Corps Ltd (the Beatles recording company) allowed Apple computers to continue using the name on condition that they never ventured into the music business. When Apple started producing music software/files a few years later, they had to pay Apple Corps $26 million - and it looks like they may now be at war again over the iPod & iTunes.

I'd agree with liz - get in touch with them and check it out. You may even end up with some sponsorship money :)

Cheers, Ben.

When Apple started producing music software/files a few years later,

And that's when they added that alert tone they call "sosumi".

Read it out loud, if you don't get it.

-- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker
Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.

Your "update" probably should have been the first bit of advice you gave. And you probably shouldn't have said anything else.

Your advice:

So, make sure you're not infringing on their trademark beforehand. If there is only the slightest doubt that you may be infringing, get a dead tree document from them that they're agreeing with you using "their" name for your software product.

In any case, batkins, don't take liz's advice and don't take mine. I am not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV. The only safe advice to give (or take) is: go get legal counsel before you have any communication with the company in question.

-sauoq
"My two cents aren't worth a dime.";

I've been thinking a lot about whether or not to reply to this.

I wanted to give my opinion about the matter at hand. And that's just what I did, to the best of my knowledge and experience. I therefore don't want to have to put any disclaimers at the bottom of every node that I write. And I don't want to be compared to someone playing a lawyer on TV.

As with all advice that you ask/get in your life, you should make up your own mind (and don't start shouting "We're all indivduals" in chorus now ;-). But seriously, if you don't make up your own mind, you let yourself be lead by others. And you'll get whatever is coming to you. Even when lawyers are being paid for giving advice, it is no guarantee that their advice is right.

From having to deal with lawyers in a corporate setting in the past 7 years, I have learned a few things. And to keep in context, I chose to word it like this:

Lawyers are just like programmers

Some of them work for big companies, some are more or less free-lancers. Some of them are in it for the money. Some of them are in it for the fun (believe it or not). Some of them are in it to better the world. Some of them are in it for themselves. And all of these aspects are mixed in any individual. And the mix can change over time or over a case. Just like programmers.

Lawyers are not just suits

Contrary to popular belief, lawyers are not bloodsucking vampires who can survive in the vacuum of space. They're human beings just like you and me getting along in the world and trying to make sense of it. I would agree with the notion that the "amorality" of the judicial system tends to attract inherently immoral people to the profession. But you got immoral people everywhere and they're not all lawyers. Just like programmers: they're not all evil hackers bent on destruction.

"Get a lawyer"?

Saying "Get a lawyer" is easy. Too easy. If anything, it should be "Get a good lawyer that you can trust to defend your case and who will stick with you through bad times". A lawyer in the end, should only be the implementer of your design. You yourself must always make the decision. A good lawyer will not make the decisions for you. Just like a good programmer.

Do lawyers program?

A programmer has a programming language to work with. So has a lawyer: it's called legalese. Some lawyers are good programmers and will find an efficient solution to the problem quickly. Some lawyers are worried about job security and will make sure that you are going to have to need their services for a long time. Most lawyers know some principles of programming, but have never done anything like what you want. Some will tell you so. Some won't. Just like programmers. The lawyer has the disadvantage that there is no reference implementation of the compiler. They can never know whether the program is right until it has to run. The lawyer however has the advantage that the program only needs to run once, or a few times at best. Efficient use of resources is therefore not an issue, unfortunately.

Getting back to the case at hand. If you don't want to contact the company about the possible trademark issue to be able to feign "plausible deniability", it's too late for that. The Monastery is public and indexed by Google. Lawyers also know how to use Google these days. Putting the question here already put you at a severe disadvantage in that respect. It is not an option to say you didn't know about them. Googling for milkbone tells you why: they're number 1 in the result, you're number 2. The original node here will only make things worse.

If you do contact a good lawyer (and I'm a strong believer of "word of mouth" in that respect), the first thing (s)he'll tell you is to change the name of your product/project. That will be the cheapest and least stressful way. Because your resources (an open source project) are going to be way less than whatever resources they (the company) can throw at it. And while it is the most important thing in the world to you now, it is just a side note for whatever manager at the company who decides to put a lawyer on it.

If you want to get a lawyer at this time. Do it. Make the decision. If you don't want to get a lawyer at this time and contact them on your own. Do it. Make that decision. If you want to get a lawyer and contact the company on your own. Do that. To me, that would make the most sense in your case right now. Because anything a lawyer writes and sends to the company right now, is going to have to be read by a lawyer from the other party. And you don't want to talk to lawyers right now, because they're just the programmers. You don't ask programmers about design decisions. You ask the people in charge. They might bring in the lawyers, but they may do so at anytime anyway. And then if nothing comes out of direct communication with people in charge, you can change the name of your product/project. In any case, you'll be able to prove that you were looking for a resolution beforehand.

And to finally stress again what I said earlier: make up your own mind, decide yourself. Don't let anyone else do that for you. Even if you made the wrong decision, it will have been yours.

Liz