in reply to (jcwren) RE: What time do you think geeks should have to get to work?
in thread What time do you think geeks should have to get to work?

I think this is just a ploy to get XP for asking a similiar question!

Of course! But only as much as your were asking a similar post to Ovid's Why do monks put up with it?. ;-)

Seriously though, this is something that I've thought a lot about in the past. Your post and the replies to it made me want to see what others thought about this particular question. I've worked at companies before where I have been mostly independent in what I've been doing; ie, normally there is no reason that I have to be at work at a particular time (except of course for things like meetings etc). I've argued vehemently that I should be allowed a lot more flexibility than I'd had but mostly been denied this because, as BlaisePascal said, I didn't have enough "political clout".

I've actually come to more or less the same conclusion that you've expressed in your reply - that core hours are important, but traditional times to be in the office are less so.

You mentioned working from home:

> I do think that in this day and age, more people need to telecommute.

I agree with this, but I don't think that the infrastructure is available yet where this can become common practice. Even when the infrastructure is there, I reckon it'll take a while for it to catch on, for the same reason that programmers are required to wear suits to work.

> So it's not a matter of "Oh, I'll finished as by the due-date", it should be an attitude "I'll finish this as fast as possible, within reason".

Again, I agree with you. I just think that being able to set your own hours, at least in the case of most programmers, makes you more productive. If you aren't able to manage your time yourself you'll find out fast because you won't be able to keep up with what you have to do - either you'll get fired or you'll learn to organise yourself properly.

You also talked about office space. As you say, most offices are much less than 100% perfect as a working environment and could be drastically improved (but aren't, generally for the reason you say - it doesn't look good on a balance sheet).

This is one of the biggest reasons I think it's important for techies to be able to manage their own time. I know that if I come in at 11am and leave at 8pm, I'll get way more done than if I have to be at work from 9 to 5. Most of the other reasons for wanting to come in whenever I like are for the most part selfish - I prefer to stay up late and get up late, I like staying in bed for as long as I like and I prefer travelling to work when it's not so busy on the train etc. But the fact being able to come in when I want means I'm more productive is something that I find hard to accept that it's considered a Bad Thing.

  • Comment on RE: (jcwren) RE: What time do you think geeks should have to get to work?

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
RE (tilly) 3: What time do you think geeks should have to get to work?
by tilly (Archbishop) on Sep 09, 2000 at 14:53 UTC
    The balance sheet for good office space is much different than it looks at first glance. Steve McConnell does a nice chapter on this in Rapid Development and concludes that for prices in his area at that time skimping on office space to get more developers was a foolish decision - by about a factor of 100. (BTW I recommend the book, a good chunk of it will give techies good facts and figures to use to make a good case to management..)

    Of course businesses have been ignoring research for years that says that code reviews are cost effective just in terms of improvements to debugging time. Let alone the implicit training benefits! In general costs that nickle and dime you to death get ignored by people because the up front bills are more obvious...