But there isn't much difference between asking at the Monastery or in a #perl channel on one of a few hundred IRC servers, except it is very easy for a professor to check the Monastery once a day or so for any of his/her students' actions. I would hope that any professor teaching a class on perl would be wise enough to A) tell all of the students about the Monastery, B) set guidelines on what they ask around here during the class, and C) drop by every now and then to ensure his/her students aren't violating those guidelines.

I personally am very happy when I see my fellow monks noticing someone is trying to get an easy answer to pass a class without expending any effort. The unwritten code of conduct seems to be that aside from the extreme and bizarre happenings, we expect at least 80% of the work to be done, then the monks will help out with optimization and peer review sorts of things. I guess the most I would ask on this thread would be that we make some of the unwritten rules on this subject within the monastery written. Perhaps someone versed in lawyer-speak can drum up a nice couple sentences to be added on the FAQ, SoPW page, and/or maybe even Create A New User.

- - arden.
p.s. complaining about being downvoted in the same thread is only asking to be downvoted again. Some might even call it trollish.

If you really want to impact cheaters trying to sail by a programming class, propose that PM charge a nominal fee, say $1 a month, and do away with handles and anonymous posting. Then, since there is money involved, the lazy people would go back to their roots of bribing the smart guy in class to do their work for them. (But you propose it, because I don't want to be chased off the forum and have my birthday taken away.)

Another approach might be to participate in the threads you find interesting, and stay away from the ones that piss you off. We've all seen "how do i mash up teh button?!?!" posts that make us cringe, but on the other hand I at least have seen some interesting homework problems that were fun to solve, and have participated in those threads. If my 2 minutes of quick-hack coding helps someone pass a class he wasn't meant to, I'd be pretty damned suprised. I'd be less suprised to find out that my answer plus the 10 similar but different and 2 or so totally far gone answers inspired someone to use perl.

Personaly, when I'm not sure if a student is asking me a quesstion of their own or a homework question, I simply sign the work. I have had students that handed in things to teachers that I knew well that had a (* JMM *) in them -- and that was unmistakably in my style besides. (I tend to use a very odd style -- esp when I'm writing in Pascal.)

While that's not directly relevant here -- few teachers would have a clue what a "# PM" would indicate, and few students would be stupid enough to leave it there.

Really, it isn't our job to keep students from cheating here. It is the teacher's job, and if the teacher can't tell between the code of one student from that of another, they deserve what they get. Unfornatly, everyone with a degree suffers when someone who shouldn't have a degree gets one, and not all teachers are good. Really, what the world needs is a good library of code that teachers know how to check. Unfornatly, any solution that relies on teachers being decent is doomed.

Since higher education relies on teachers being good, I am forced to accept that the problem is unsolvable.

How's that for an uplifting node?

1. They give those of us who are still muddling through the earlier chapters of Perl by Example something to read on this site that we understand (besides the tutorials).

2. They give younger monks some way to give back and in so doing, to grow.

3. They give everyone the opportunity to show kindness to the clueless. Some of them, like me, will be encouraged enough to keep learning and trying to improve.

My suggestion would be to let younger monks have a day or so at these kinds of posts, and have the more experienced monks who care to, look through both question and answers and offer advice thereafter. Even if the original post is worthless, a lot of the stabs at it by the newer folks won’t be. If the original poster learns something from the dialogue, so much the better. This suggestion also has the virtue for those worried about cheating, of giving such students exactly the kind of answer they deserve, if they take the first, likely wrong, one.

All that said, thanks for welcoming me to the site. And I hope when I post my next Kindergarten Perl question, I can continue to count on kindness, as well as wisdom. At least I’m learning how to word such questions so as to reduce my brothers’ irritation, and that, too, is valuable.

Pax vobiscum.

NovMonk

Quoting Dominus:

Perhaps I should admit that I always like to answer those homework questions, and I think you folks should do it too, because it's a dog-eat-dog world, and if these folks want you to assist them in sabotaging their educations so that they are less able to compete with you after they graduate, you should let them do it.

Initiative is important, so with homework questions, industry questions, or for-fun questions, if the poster is not showing serious initiative, I think it is best that we point them towards some documentation and move on. It's not just students that do this -- many misunderstand what "laziness" in the Wall sense really means.

Admittedly, University policies are often way too strict. I have helped some EE friends through CS classes that would have flunked out of college otherwise...it may be in the gray area, but it's not exactly wrong. I did try to make sure they wrote their own code, and I would only answer questions asked. It's important to be fairly Socratic when it comes to homework questions.

Learning is one thing, learning how to think is another, and learning how to learn is even more important than the previous 2.

That being said, if a question is related to Perl knowledge in general, or Computer Science in general, and not related directly to "how do I parse this phone number for problem #3", that's fine with me. For instance, "I have a homework problem where I need to store a data structure to a file. I don't want any code from you, but what would be a good way to do this? Are there any recommended modules or tools I can use?".

…and someone who relies on having others to do their work for them will eventually fall on their face.

Um-- isn't that what managers do? In my experience, people who couldn’t do the work to start with are the ones who get so elevated—the Peter Principle in action: (in a hierarchy, everyone rise to his or her level of incompetence.)

Depressing thought for a Friday; sorry. And no offense intended to any good managers out there, just a few former managers of mine, who wouldn't know Perl if it came up and bit them. (Now, that's an entertaining thought...)

Good weekend to all, and to all a good night.

NovMonk