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I was reading through the bivio website when I noticed a very compelling statement:

In application server systems of today, the presentation layer drives the business logic. Even leading-edge application servers which use declarative languages like XMLC, do not address the control logic issue. For maintainability, you need a control layer, which is what differentiates OLTP systems from application servers.

their proof

To support this they showed one line from Sun's official J2EE tutorial on Java Server Pages (JSP):

<input type="text" name="username" size="25">
[download]

and continued with two criticisms. First, why is there no maxsize parameter whose value is dictated by the database constraints? Second, why was the graphic designer adding such an element to their page at all?

i can relate

I was recently developing a gaming battle site for a game that I play and how did I design it? I drew out all the HTML pages, which means that I was allowing the view to dictate the model, just as the bivio people said.

questions

Do you think that the trend in application servers is a problem? I for one do think that it is a problem. Just imagine all the crosstalk between database designer, Perl programmer and web designer that must take place over that one button and then imagine the need for such conversation on every page.
Take a look at the source code for their homepage. It is nothing but Perl...
My chief beef (hey that rhymes) with the bivio approach is that most HTML designers like to work on whole pages.

The spectrum of web application products in Perl

I think we can create a spectrum of web application solutions in Perl:

The embedded Perl solutions - HTML::Mason, Embperl, PLP
The aggressively anti-embedded Perl solutions
1. The solutions which still have a XML template file: HTML::Seamstress, Petal, Xelig
2. The solutions which can generate XML, HTML, emails, and more and have no template XML view: bivio
The embedded mini-language solutions which have some possibility of embedding Perl HTML::Template, Template
I don't know where Text::Template categorizes.

DBSchema::Sample

In reply to the trend of the presentation layer driving application logic by princepawn

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