Overall a great discussion, thank you all. The well developed discussion of the differences of opinion reminds me of many battles I have been forced into over concepts such as Software Engineering, Development Methodologies, Management Quality Initiatives, ad nasuem. When you get right down to it the process of creating functional software is still more art than science or even engineering as it is understood now. Creating software is really more akin to the development of a commissioned art work than designing a new electrical circuit.

Why? Well I suspect that centuries or at least many decades of prior ‘art’ in the other ‘engineering’ disciplines has a lot to do with it. Software development is till something that is only about 2 generations old. Many of us here started our careers in the very early years of our art. We grow closer each year to becoming a true engineering discipline. But the progress is slow

I remember mangers who 15 years ago insisted that network services should be as robust as telephone networks. They forgot that telephony had had over 100 years to build that robustness.

Too many mangers still insist that methodologies that work in other industries and processes are perfect fits to software development. Six Sigma worked wonders for Fed-Ex and the Army Logistics command and ….. etc. so therefore it must be perfect to apply to the process of software development. Um not so much.

It I so easy to be drawn into the cult of measurement that we forget that we have no idea what we are trying to measure or what the numbers we come up with actually mean (if anything) … remember source code line counting?

We need quality processes to improve our products but I think that until we develop these things from with our own ranks we are not going to move forward very successfully.

We all have suffered managers who do not understand what we do, how we do it or anything about the process. I personally think that managers who are responsible for managing developers and other software folks should have been software people at some point. The numbers of us who become managers is growing but the percentage is still pretty low. .

As always these are my 2 kopeks worth. YMMV and probably will 8^). I do hope it will stimulate more such excellent discussion.

Misha/Michael - Russian student, grognard, bemused observer of humanity and self professed programmer with delusions of relevance

In reply to Re^2: "Bah! Scrumbug!" (Lessons from the scrap-bin) by MishaMoose
in thread "Bah! Scrumbug!" (Lessons from the scrap-bin) by locked_user sundialsvc4

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