Wow, ok, well, this is where I get a little lost with pointers, I get that way in C also when it gets 'weird' like that (pointers to pointers etc). I would love to see a short example as I can't quite see how I would write it. Also is it a bad thing to have a few 'master hashes' that I control, and pass around and modify? The first time I wrote this, I had almost all global vars and it was terrible! I'm all self taught and all this help sure has opened my eyes to the power and ease, tho at times complex ways to work with perl to be efficient. Thanks again for all the help from all the members, it's very much appreciated!