i write html for mozilla and ie 5.5. i try to only use tables for columns, because i can't figure out how to make columnar design work in ie. also, of course, tabular data like search results, etc. which is what tables are for. i am learning css more and more but i've still got a ways to go, so i understand that is can be frustrating sometimes, however, it is certainly the way to go. i expect in 5 years most professional-level sites will be using xml and xslt, it is infinitely more flexible although the overhead of setting such a system up is higher.