Re^2: Yet another "why CGI-Application" question

Thanks much everyone. After (not-so-much) pondering, I have decided to --

follow a mix of Arunbear's, dragonchild's, and weierophinney's advice. I will try once more to understand a bit more of OOP, and read some of CGI-App's source (many speak highly of the framework, so there is some "capital" to be "expended," so to say).
Unfortunately, Damian's book will have to wait -- I have no money to buy another book -- I think I have enough in this discussion to go on forward

dragonchild, thanks for a really detailed expounding of a really detailed expounding. I really did like your "socialist" and "clannish" nomenclature -- made more sense than other pure technical stuff (frankly, words like "class" and "inheritance" leave me cold -- esp. "polymorphism" -- that one is really frigid).

Perl has benefited so much from its laissez-faire approach -- TMTOWTDI is a flag-bearing slogan. And that is good.

However, I feel, Perl is used so much in web apps, and given that CGI.pm is a part of the core, maybe it would be beneficial to have something like CGI-App and H-T also a part of the core. Python-ers talk highly of Zope, and PHP-ers speak of Zend. As far as I can see, the closest thing Perl-ers have to a standardized "framework" is mod_perl, but that is such a pain in the behind to implement because it is tied to the webserver, and requires re-jigging your scripts more often than not. It might be worthwhile to have a web-application framework be a part of the language core -- compelte with all the services, session management, etc.

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Re^3: Yet another "why CGI-Application" question by dragonchild (Archbishop) on Nov 29, 2004 at 18:47 UTC
(This is going wayyy off the original topic, but I follow where the conversation leads.) (frankly, words like "class" and "inheritance" leave me cold -- esp. "polymorphism" -- that one is really frigid) Words are nothing more than carriers of meaning. However, each person has their own understanding of each meaning, leading to the ideas of denotation (dictionary meaning) and connotation (personal meaning). Denotations tend to be very dry, as they're trying to pin down something that, frankly, cannot be pinned down. Connotations tend to be very emotional, like your reactions to certain words. Now, neither is good or bad. We use both in our daily lives to great effect. Just try to imagine a world without connotations - jokes would suck. Persuasive speech would be impossible. Politicians would ... well, maybe that's a reason for such world, but that's another discussion, preferably over several beers. To bring this back to your comments ... I would stop and look at the denotations of words that "leave you cold". Often, words leave me cold when I don't really understand what's going on behind them. Sometimes, I think that's why I didn't get that philosophy minor - too many words I didn't understand, so I didn't bother. Frankly, I'm indebted to this site for explaining many of the concepts behind the words of programming. Without that, I may have given up on excelling in my chosen Art. I would do some searching through the bowels of this site before accepting the cold shoulder from certain words. Personally, I'd look through the Meditations of the Saints. I'm particularly fond of tilly and tye, though all of them are excellent writers. Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs nothing. Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid. Expressing a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence. Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is not the same as explaining you know better.	[reply]

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Re^3: Yet another "why CGI-Application" question
by dragonchild (Archbishop) on Nov 29, 2004 at 18:47 UTC

(frankly, words like "class" and "inheritance" leave me cold -- esp. "polymorphism" -- that one is really frigid)

Words are nothing more than carriers of meaning. However, each person has their own understanding of each meaning, leading to the ideas of denotation (dictionary meaning) and connotation (personal meaning). Denotations tend to be very dry, as they're trying to pin down something that, frankly, cannot be pinned down. Connotations tend to be very emotional, like your reactions to certain words.

Now, neither is good or bad. We use both in our daily lives to great effect. Just try to imagine a world without connotations - jokes would suck. Persuasive speech would be impossible. Politicians would ... well, maybe that's a reason for such world, but that's another discussion, preferably over several beers.

To bring this back to your comments ... I would stop and look at the denotations of words that "leave you cold". Often, words leave me cold when I don't really understand what's going on behind them. Sometimes, I think that's why I didn't get that philosophy minor - too many words I didn't understand, so I didn't bother. Frankly, I'm indebted to this site for explaining many of the concepts behind the words of programming. Without that, I may have given up on excelling in my chosen Art.

I would do some searching through the bowels of this site before accepting the cold shoulder from certain words. Personally, I'd look through the Meditations of the Saints. I'm particularly fond of tilly and tye, though all of them are excellent writers.

Being right, does not endow the right to be rude; politeness costs nothing.
Being unknowing, is not the same as being stupid.
Expressing a contrary opinion, whether to the individual or the group, is more often a sign of deeper thought than of cantankerous belligerence.
Do not mistake your goals as the only goals; your opinion as the only opinion; your confidence as correctness. Saying you know better is not the same as explaining you know better.

[reply]