Hiding Perl's Machine Room on the web

Andre_br has asked for the wisdom of the Perl Monks concerning the following question:

Hello my code friends,

This is not about perl code directly, but about the cgi environment. So, I think it´s related to the problems that the Perl community faces when developing for the web. So here I go:

I usually have all the sites running in a major frame, while the user sees only the http://www.mydomain.com in their browser's adress bar, all the time. I´ve been doing this for two reasons:

Reason #1 - looks cleaner, the visitor´s experience is like a desktop software, without all those strange parameters showing out.

Reason #2 - the 1 pixel invisible frame (iFrame) I let above the major frame is usefull for making requests to the server without having to refresh the current page. I know there´s XMLHttpRequest, to do this without the need of this pivot technique, but if you´re talking about a https request, like a login-only ssl connection, XMLHttpRequest doesn´t handle it.

NEVERTHELESS, I´ve run across many problems of this approach, mainly because I´m starting to use mod_write's features, to provide my clients interessting adresses like http://www.mysite.com/products/DVDs (wich Apache, with my rule, rewrites to http://www.mysite.com/scripts/search.cgi?product=DVDs). The problems I´ve run into are these:

Problem #1 - The iFrame won´t be there when mod_rewrite urls are entered. So, on the scripts that require it, my javascript login is useless. And my site useless too! And that doesn´t happen only when mod_rewrite urls are entered, but everytime the user clicks search-engines links to the inner scripts its spiders have compiled, you know?

Problem #2 - Also related to the absence of the iFrame: I´ve provided this beautifull link for the DVD section, but when the user clicks anything, there you have all the dirty urls out!

So I thought about suggesting you guys we make a little survey about the approach regarding this issue. Maybe we get to some consensus about it.

andre_br

Considered (talexb): Retitle: OT: Hiding ..
Unconsidered (holli): Enough keep votes (Keep/Edit/Delete: 4/10/2)

Comment on Hiding Perl's Machine Room on the web

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Hiding Perl's Machine Room on the web by thcsoft (Monk) on Jun 09, 2005 at 02:50 UTC
i don't want to be arrogant, but i think it's only fair that you run into these problems. it looks attractive, i know, hiding everything from the user that might be bothering to her. but with this approach it is you who has to bother: with all possible users and all their possible moods and knowledges! no programmer is god-like, and as far as i know about thinking processes in the W3C, there is no intention for the internet to behave god-like. (well, apart from steve ballmer and his consorts, who believe in and cultivate their customers' dumbness.) as far as i know the "average" user, they can be divided roughly into two categories: 1.) those, who have no idea what's happening in front of them, who are capable of writing letters and emails and have no further technical understanding. most of them don't care about the text displayed in location bars, as they tend to some sort of beneficial ignorance: they don't care of what they don't understand. 2.) users with internet experience and affinity. they know what a location bar is for and that the text displayed in it is maybe useful for them, maybe not. these users will possibly be rather bewildered and get sceptical of a site, where they can surf and surf without a changing location. personally i wouldn't trust such a website like yours. i would assume that there are things happening behind my back - which is exactly the reason why i'm a linux-user. ;) so, after all your question is is more of a political than a technical one, but nice to discuss... language is a virus from outer space.	[reply]
Frames and URL masking by dorward (Curate) on Jun 09, 2005 at 08:56 UTC
I doubt that most users will notice or care what the URL they are visiting is until they need access to it, e.g. for bookmarking, or for copy/pasting into an email to send to a friend "John! You like Ninja Monkeys. This page has the movie DVD for only £5!". If the URL to the page they are actually interested in is masked, then you wreck things for the user. There is nothing stopping you rewriting all URLs so they take a nicer format. Even if the user performs a search using a form, you can have form handler redirect to a prettier URL.	[reply]
Re: Frames and URL masking by Andre_br (Pilgrim) on Jun 10, 2005 at 20:50 UTC
Hello thcsoft and dorward! Yeah, those are good points you guys raised. In fact, the hiding seems suspicious, I agree thsoft. Good description for the two psichological profiles, too! And the ultimate reason that convinced me is the one dorward gave, wich is that the users won´t be able to send each others the links, with this Mr. M. scheme of mine! So, please help me to find another solution for the login-issue my iFrame was helping me. I do it now in a pop-up? As I told you, it´s through https and XMLHttpRequest can´t help me. Thanks a lot! Andre_br	[reply]