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Re^2: Perl forum ambassadors?
by BUU (Prior) on Sep 03, 2005 at 10:35 UTC
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Of course. I think you miss my point. My point isn't to go find some Java forum and troll for 30 pages about why Perl beats Java (Obviously it does! =] ). That won't do anything useful, which is what the linked article seems to talk about. My desire is to help people writing bad perl code to write good perl code. | [reply] |
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When I started my current position as an AIX administrator - I was in awe at the amount of Perl code we had running on our systems - I though "Cool", I can do this. After rewriting several hundred scripts - its no longer cool. I tried explaining to people I work with why
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
is a good idea - they still don't get it, they say their code works fine. Case in point - we have a cgi script that allows us to control our printers - I took one look at it, added
#!/usr/bin/perl -T
use strict;
use warnings;
use diagnostics;
Needless to say, the script(s) failed miserably, I rewrote the several thousand line long flub and they complain, because it doesn't look the same, and if I leave who will maintain my code? I find myself writing a lot of what I consider decent code to conform to the poor performance and bad interface standards that the people I work with are used to - In turn I penned the node perl programming for a living.
I thank the Gods everyday for perlmonks, it provides some clarity to the fog.
Ted
--
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier, not that the task itself has become easier, but that our ability to perform it has improved."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re^2: Perl forum ambassadors (Perl Before Swine)?
by spiritway (Vicar) on Sep 03, 2005 at 22:53 UTC
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I see a couple of problems with this article (Why Perl Advocacy Is A Bad Idea). First, it's pretty arrogant. I like the idea that I'm among a group of smart people, and that makes me smart, too. Of course, just associating with smart people won't make me smart. I still have to do the work.
The other objection I have is simply that you're never going to be able to hide from the so-called dumb people, the huddled masses, the unwashed millions, hoi polloi, proletariat, peasants, whatever you call them. They're out there, in a location near you, and you'll never get away from them.
IMNSHO, it's useless to try to preserve our sacred Perl from the minions of the Unclean. It is much better to work to educate those who want to play or work with Perl, to help them become better coders. I think Merlyn's got the right idea - get out there and try to correct the errors. It may prove to be Perl before swine, but it may also help to rehabilitate Perl's undeserved reputation. | [reply] |
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I think you may have entirely misread davorg's article (originally given as a talk during 2001,) taking it literally rather than humourously as I know the author intended. Or maybe I'm missing something in your comments. What I do know is that davorg has more than most done what the OP is suggesting, taking good Perl to the outer fringes of the cargo cult, blind leading the blind world in forums that people here would baulk at.
davorg's talk was in a long tradition, perhaps epitomised by Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal
Update: I had forgotten Dave's other talk he gave that year, which balances things nicely.
/J\
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Hmmm... sounds like the aliens forgot to remove the probe.
Once again, you have taken my words out of context, and in doing so have perverted their meaning. In my second sentence, I stated that I objected to the article because it was arrogant. The reason I did so is because I don't feel I am a great programmer, neither in Perl nor any other language. In English, when we use the expression "so-called", it is an indication that we don't agree with the word or phrase that follows. So when I referred to the "so-called dumb people", my intent was to show a disagreement with the label of "dumb". This is a subtlety of the language that could be lost on one whose native tongue is not English. (If your native tongue *is* English, then you've got other issues I can't help you with).
I have never claimed to be a better Perl programmer than anyone else. I come here to learn, not to teach. If someone happens to ask a question that I know the answer to, yes, I'll contribute. But the fact is, I've been using Perl for only a couple of months, so I'm not anywhere near to claiming I know much of anything.
Instead of attacking me, it might be more productive to simply educate me. Where did I go wrong? What information did I offer, that is incorrect or incomplete? Help me to be a better Perl programmer (and a better poster), instead of just slamming me because I'm imperfect. Chances are, you're also imperfect. So show me my errors, and give me a chance to learn from your wisdom. And by doing that, you won't have to hide behind the Anonymous Monk label.
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Almost anyone is a better coder in Java than me, does it mean I can teach them no Perl? I don't think so. The fact that someone is an experienced coder (I don't like that word) in one language doesn't mean he (or she) doesn't need to learn when entering a new realm. And a trully good professional is not afraid to admit it.
Jenda Java is the machine that goes *ping*.
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