On the one hand, familiarity -- nay, committment -- to the Monastery is a desireable attribute of any dev...

But on the other, we regularly see newcomers -- even initiates -- posting knowledgeable answers to SOPW; insightful comments re Meditations, and so on, indicating that they have rather substantial skills.

... so with that as preface, I would offer the opinion (which may not be worth much) that we would do well to set the minimum fairly low to allow annointment of those in the OTH above, while obtaining some of the benefits of the attributes in TFH ("the first hand" ^TM).

so, ummm 6-ish???

We can tune this by group. For instance no knowledge of PM is required for moderation, but SiteDocClan need to know the site well, likewise it can be difficult for us gods to hand-hold a new pmdevil who is unaware of the basic site concepts so we traditionally set the bar high there too. But this latter point depends on the work the pmdevil is going to do. For some of the tasks we need doing you dont need much Everything knowledge, just the willingness to deal with crufty code, work out what it does, and then refactor it into something simpler and/or more efficient, or just easier to understand.

As an aside i think the thing with new pmdevils is that they think that there is going to be an opportunity to do a lot of cool coding. The truth of course is that even when you are working on such a project most of it is tiny incremental steps to get the overall codebase in the position where the big architectural changes can happen. Releveling for instance involved a whole host of work just to be feasable.

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$world=~s/war/peace/g

Excellent points, but I'd quibble -- slightly -- re moderation. Seems to me, we rather regularly have to use [gentle education|caustic reminders|a large cluestick] re some ill-considered moderations. I know-- I was there.

But yes! Those who seek to be pmdevs in anticipation of "cool coding" may well find that replacing leaky faucets; whitewashing the stonework and the like is *NOT* what they expected, but even those "tiny incremental steps" can require a quite subtle understanding of the entire layout of the plumbing or the limits of the walls' absorbancy.

When I joined pmdev it was sort of on an appretiship, theorbtwo (or castaway..please forgive me for not remembering since you both helped greatly) took me on and helped me through the first patch. That way a new member isn't lost and doesn't break anything. It doesn't need to be an enforced apprentiship but perhaps anyone should be allowed to join pmdev if they can find a sponsor of sorts. I know that only applies to pmdev and not realy the other groups, but maybe it applies to those as well, trial membership in any form should help weed out people who are undesirable in the group.


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Eric Hodges $_='y==QAe=e?y==QG@>@?iy==QVq?f?=a@iG?=QQ=Q?9'; s/(.)/ord($1)-50/eigs;tr/6123457/- \/|\\\_\n/;print;

I tend to agree that the level of eligibility could reasonably be quite low, since actual membership still requires divine intervention. What's the point of having a minimum level for eligibility? It's just something we post, to discourage every newbie from clamoring for induction.

We're building the house of the future together.

Is it based on XP or level? If XP, then no change should be necessary, except you might want to make it the same as the nearest level's min XP number. If level, then it would be helpful to know what the old min XP for level 9 was. Currently it's 900.

While we're on the subject - Levels of Monks only talks about eligibility for SiteDocClan. What about the other groups?

Traditionally its been a level thing. Old level 8 was the requirement for pmdev, and I dont remember the others. Im pretty sure we changed the level for moderation already.

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$world=~s/war/peace/g

From a comparative clueless newbie:

May I suggest that it be made explicitly invitation only?