in reply to Re: Re: Modules Vs. Manual Coding
in thread Modules Vs. Manual Coding

And why are you limiting your thinking that way? Do you take it for granted that Perl works perfectly. Are you under some illusion that you actually have a clue how Perl works?

Did you know that /California/ will match faster against a long string than /Cali/? Do you have a clue why?

Perl 5.6.0 has a bug. The following prints 10 instead of 210. Do you have a clue what could possibly cause this? Do you have any idea what is going on inside of Perl here?

my $x = 10; $x = '2' . $x; print $x + 0;
Right now Damian Conway and I have been trying to puzzle out a bug in the development release of Perl. It appears to be a bug in Perl. What, we have no idea. What are you going to do with a bug which really is not in your script? I say that advisably. When I throw in:
require Data::Dumper; print Dumper(\%call_info);
inside a function and it not only does not print but jumps out of several layers of functions, something is seriously wrong with Perl.

There is nothing, zero, zilch, nada special about programming scripts and modules that suggests that due diligence there is any more important than at other levels in the tool-chain. The only difference is that you think you understand what is happening there so you can go into your faux-paranoia and refuse to use code which was probably written by people who are far more competent than you.

And even if you are a better programmer, they probably know more about the problem domain that they are working with than you do. Besides which fresh code is by nature more prone to bugs than tested code.

In short, I absolutely agree with clemburg. You either are a hopeless wreck or you use things that you don't understand all of the time, and by claiming to refuse to do so you are demonstrating your ignorance. If you refuse to use that you have not personally audited merely because it is at a level you can try to figure out, then you are being ridiculous.

By all means audit the code, figure out how it works. Find bugs. Fix and report them. Don't use stuff once you have good reason to think it is buggy. But don't pull this he-programmer silliness, you aren't good enough. Perhaps if your name was Theo de Raadt I might respect it. But you are not.

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Re: Re (tilly) 3: Modules Vs. Manual Coding
by Chady (Priest) on Jan 16, 2001 at 23:56 UTC
    I actually don't know what is wrong with you people....
    Why are you being so agressive????
    have you read my last post on this page??
    I don't think you did..
    • I'm not against modules..
    • I always use modules..
    • I'm not claiming to know everything... I just try to..
    • I'm not saying I'm a better programmer... I'm on Level 2 for god's sake...
    • I also admire people who write the code, cause I know it's an art.
    • I'm not claiming to know everything... I just try to..(repeated. it's important)
    I don't know why this post has taken so much negative attitude... just refer to extremely's post at the end, and you will know what I mean.. (at least this guy did.)
    I rest my case here


    Chady | http://chady.net/
      From the sounds of your original article you try to avoid modules and you were basically looking for validation of that view even though you know that people are saying otherwise. In particular you seemed to be claiming to avoid modules for the simple reason that you ...never use anything without knowing how it works.

      This claim is both ridiculous and wrong. And the reason for it being wrong was stated concisely by clemburg.

      Now you claim to use modules all of the time. This is good. But that most certainly was not your original claim. In fact you said that you like to avoid them and avoid using any modules and scripts you do not personally understand. So do you or do you not use LWP? What about CGI? Do you understand them? I know that figuring out how they really worked took me quite a while. (I don't claim to know them in detail.) I would guess that I know more Perl than you do. But I freely admit to never having learned the internal implementation of DBI. Should I? What priority should I give that?

      In order to live and be a productive person in a complex society, you need to use stuff you don't understand and have to take on faith. That is life. And there is no magic barrier saying that you can realistically get away with doing so everywhere except Perl scripts and Perl modules. Nope. There is no wall there. There are enough good scripts and modules that I would be stupid to not be willing to use them. But mistakes get made. (Even in my stuff.) So I try to stick with tested stuff which has good bug reports. I make heavy use of the local research agency. In short I perform my due diligence...

      The world is full of uncertainties. Those uncertainties regularly destroy lives both figuratively and literally. Of such is life made. You don't have a choice, so learn to deal.

      Maybe the level of "aggressive" in the responses is the result of a certain level of (perhaps unintentional) flame-baiting in the root node.