in reply to Re^3: start over with SOAP in Perl?
in thread start over with SOAP in Perl?

...it adds some random 'gensym' elements all over the place if you try to return a complex perl data structure to it...

...if you don't wrap stuff w/ SOAP::Data. (and it's frequently wrong...

...That's not a bug. It's a feature. Look at SOAP::Serializer ... in Autotyping, 'base64' has the highest precidence. base64's match criteria is: 
    base64 => [10, sub {$_[0] =~ /[^\x09\x0a\x0d\x20-\x7f]/}, 'as_base
+64'],

[download]


...it's not going to be a free ride -- expect there to be some pain. Much of the problem isn't with SOAP::Lite, but with SOAP in general, and the varying implementations across toolkits.



You're making my point better than I ever could. None of these sorts of issues seem to exist in the SOAP client libraries of the other four languages that my company deals with on a regular basis: Java, PHP, Ruby, or C#. All of these languages seem to handle complexTypes, booleans, encodings, data types, etc. with a minimum of fuss and bother. Only Perl seems to require the melting of brains.

I wrote about my experience with the Ruby and other languages' SOAP libraries, if you'd like to read about a comparable experience.

For all I know, my company's customers are out there solving these problems for themselves right now, but if they are, they are awfully quiet about it. Three of us at my company have been spending time trying to come up with some sort of concrete recommendation besides "abandon the WSDL; hack the serializer; don't bother with the mail list."

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^5: start over with SOAP in Perl?
by jhourcle (Prior) on Aug 31, 2006 at 16:40 UTC

    The only fair comparison is PHP -- the other languages track information about what the type of the variables are, which is where SOAP in perl falls down. Perl is not a strictly typed language, and so SOAP::Lite tries to guess what you intended.

    Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not. Just like Perl -- sometimes the DWIM doesn't work. Perl has no concept of a boolean type, nor easily discernable differentaton between a float, integer and string -- they're all just scalars. As for the gensym bits, it's because it has no element name to use, because of the way arrays and hashes are handled in Perl. You don't need named structures, like some other languages. So it randomly inserts something for you. Is that the best solution? Maybe. Perhaps it should have a 'strict' option where it dies anytime it has to make an assumption about what you wanted, so you could see where you didn't cast every last item that might be ambiguously interpreted

    And I don't think I ever said abandon the WSDL -- in fact, if you check the soapbuilders list, I believe that the general concencus is to use the WSDL as a starting point, but not necessarily as-is -- copy it, modify it to work for your toolkit, and point to that. The problem is if the server should change their WSDL, but odds are, that'd break things anyway.

    And you don't have to hack the serializer if you follow the instructions in the SOAP::Lite documentation for casting data using SOAP::Data. I don't have that luxury, because I have a SOAP aggregator, which gets its data from a SOAP server, and passes it back out, so it was easier to hack the Serializer. There are methods to give extra conditions or change the precidence of items -- use it, it's what they're there for.

    Personally, I'm working on moving all of my services over to document/literal, rather than rpc/encoded. Of course, I have the advantage that I control all of the servers (but not all of the clients)

[reply]
Re^5: start over with SOAP in Perl?
by evaddnomaid (Initiate) on Aug 31, 2006 at 19:07 UTC

    I agree that the way to fix SOAP::Lite is to replace it. This is not to say SOAP::Lite is not an excellent package or the people who built it didn't do us all a great service. But replacing one component with a new one, and new ideas, is a time-honored tradition that works in the Open Source world.

    What should the SOAP::Lite replacement look like?

    • It should make the easy things easy and the hard things possible.
    • It should be as clean and satisfying for a Perl fan to use as the Ruby, Java, etc. approaches are satisfying to users of those languages.
    • It should do everything the SOAP standard demands, including complex types.

    If anyone wants to kick off a mailing list, or SF project, or anything else to make progress on these goals, please let me know.

[reply]
Re^5: start over with SOAP in Perl?
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 31, 2006 at 16:16 UTC
    Have you considered taking the Ruby or PHP SOAP library and porting it to Perl?
[reply]
      easyer still ... well maybe ;)
      Inline::Ruby



      This is not a Signature...
[reply]
[d/l]

In Section Meditations