I don't set out to insult but I do sometimes find that a bit of wit (dry or otherwise) can help make a point that otherwise seemed to have been missed. You will note that in my initial laying out of where I was I made a specific point about relational solutions. I didn't make that point lightly, but after doing a large wodge of research on the net that led me to belive that neat custom solutions like that articulated by BrowserUK would provide quicker searches and be more easily implemented from where we are and in trying to do what we are trying to do. But I don't insult people here and I thank those who have tried to convince that realtional is the only true way.