in reply to Re^2: Poster child applications?
in thread Poster child applications?

And BTW, the Human Genome article is dated 1996.

Uh huh. And the work goes on. And will go on for decades yet. That's the thing about serious projects, they don't start and stop when the fashion victims decide it's time to change the color of their knickers.

I'm after applications (as in, locally-installable code), be it "small and easy" or not.

I see. You don't care what it is. So you're not interested in the existance of a Perl Poster Child, so much as it's absence. In that case, might I politely suggest that you head on over to PHPMonks or RubyMonks, and sell your POV there. You might find someone who gives a damn.

Oh wait. You can't.


Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
"Too many [] have been sedated by an oppressive environment of political correctness and risk aversion."

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Re^4: Poster child applications?
by Cap'n Steve (Friar) on Aug 26, 2007 at 04:33 UTC

    Was that really necessary? He came to a site filled with fanatical Perl lovers and asked about a project to increase the visibility of Perl and got called an idiot for his trouble.

    You listed a project that uses Perl, do you really think that's an answer to the "every decent piece of web software is written in PHP" argument? If your boss was deciding which language to use for a project, do you think "some guys in the Human Genome Project once used Perl" will sway him?

    • I can name 5 PHP forum systems off the top of my head, and one of those replaced the Perl version (UBB).
    • I know of exactly 2 sites that use the Everything Engine and I think I've seen 3 that run on Slashcode.

    So how do you explain that? Why do people consistently choose PHP over Perl?

      So how do you explain that? Why do people consistently choose PHP over Perl?

      You don't find a lot of hosting sites willing to give you mod_perl for $4.95 a month, and there aren't a lot of monolithic mod_perl applications you can just drop in a directory and run without configuring anything else.

        I'm no expert, but a non-mod_perl installation is still feasible, right? I run a few low traffic Perl scripts on shared hosting and they seem to be pretty quick. But now that you mention it, that's what just about killed Perl on the web: mod_php is safe for shared environments and mod_perl isn't.
      Why do people consistently choose PHP over Perl?

      First off, I'm not at all sure that you are right in that assertion.

      It might be true, or it might not, but the truth is, I simply don't care. If you think that PHP is a 'better' choice than Perl for writing your web application, then by all means use PHP. I won't try to stop you.

      And I won't argue with your reasoning either. Whether you think it's better because 'everybody is using it'; or because you found a pre-existing application or framework that works for your application; or because you're one of the thousands of intelligent, well-educated, but otherwise 'newbie' programmers that are getting into web programming every year and simply find PHP easier to get into.

      In fact, even if you decided to cut to the chase and take all ambiguity and subjectivity and chance out of the equation by setting up a suitable research project to decide definitively, which was better. You know, take two teams, of equal numbers of experienced PHP & Perl web programmers; Set them up in controlled conditions before handing them both a brief for (say) a shopping site. Something reasonably meaty. Say 1,000 suppliers; 10,000 products; automated CC processing for say 5 major cards; two different physical locations with one each of a front-of-house web-server and back-of-house DB & MIS machines; load sharing between the FOH machines and DB replication between BOH machines.

      If you did all that and came here with definitive proof that the PHP set-up was faster to program and more reliable in production, then I might listen carefully to the information and bear it in mind if I ever had to program a similar web application. But until then, I will continue to use Perl for most of what I do, and other languages, but not PHP, for those parts of my projects that need that.

      But when you come here and tell me that: "loads of people are using PHP instead of Perl and we should do something about that". I'll say: Why? Why should I care what other people find best for their coding? And why do you?

      and asked about a project to increase the visibility of Perl and got called an idiot for his trouble.

      I didn't call anyone an idiot. I simply pointed out that popularity of a coding language is no measure of its effectiveness, and fitness for purpose. And to choose your programming language on that basis is a very questionable decision.

      I wear spectacles and have done for many years. Over the last few years, the commercial, high volume, fast throughput chains of opticians have succeeded in making glasses a fashion item. And with that, they brought about the vogue for wearing heavy framed, narrow lensed spectacles. Made them the 'in thing'. So much so, and so successfully that it became almost impossible to find light-weight, wire-framed, full-lensed glasses in many chains, because no one would buy them as they were seen as 'old fashioned'.

      The problem is, if you talk to a ophthalmologist who's livelihood isn't derived from those high-volume, fast throughput chains, they will tell you that heavy framed, narrow lenses are trouble. They are almost impossible to fit with bi-focal or vari-focal lenses. They can cause physical strains because of the need to rotate the head up and down and side to side, rather than just the eyes as nature intended. But still, millions bought into the narrow is new, modern, fashionable.

      Of course, now everyone has the narrow ones, the marketeers will look to sell us 1980s style snooker glasses. Or 1950s elasticated side, small rounds. Or whatever else they manage to capture the popular psyche with. Cos that's what they do.


      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
        "Why do people consistently choose PHP over Perl?"

        From a strictly newbie point of view starting to learn both Perl and PHP one of the things that immediately struck me with PHP was the built in functionality that allowed database manipulation and subsequent display in web pages so readily.

        This gives a learner instant gratification that they have a working solution/answer and I think that initial buzz sticks, they then continue to use it regardless whether it is the best option or not.

        Again from experience of “taught languages” as opposed to “self taught” it is unusual for a University student in the UK to get the opportunity to learn both. It is far more likely that PHP will be an option Perl being offered only on very few courses Artificial Intelligence and perhaps Information Systems for example.
        I agree that it's a little strange to care how popular your favorite language is, but it's definitely a human trait to want to be part of the "winning team" and I think a lot of people on this site do care. I guess you can justify it by saying that the more popular Perl is, the more job opportunities you'll have.