Re^12: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl

Because that is the reality for the majority of new joiners once decisions like this are in place.

As is choice of language, libraries, project, customer, manager, all of the existing code, and every other artifact of the software development process up to the point of the new hire's, well, hire.

I've committed code that was awfully clever because it was the best way we could think of in the time we had to solve the problem we needed to solve. Ovid could tell a great story about how we chose Python for one particular project, and I'm sure he has several stories I've forgotten about me asking him if the code I wrote was too clever for the rest of the team to handle. (The particular occasion I remember, we were discussing whether to train everybody else on the technique or to simplify the code. I don't remember what we decided, and it's immaterial to the story.)

I expect to make some compromises for the good of the team when I work with a team. I don't expect that even with my "high status" that everyone automatically agrees with me, and I can live with that, as long as we're following a development process that lets us refine what we do to improve how we do things.

I'm not interested in hiring someone who can't or won't work under those circumstances. He or she may be a fantastic coder, but I'll bet on being able to train a decent programmer into brilliance if he or she can work well with others. I don't intend that to sound harsh or cruel; if I were hiring people (I'm not leading a development team right now) I would look for people who wanted to work on such a team and I would make it clear that that's an expectation.

This thread has certainly gone on long enough, and neither will convince the other. It seems that we've discussed just about every angle of the subject I can imagine. If you'd agree and would like to have the last word, please feel free.

Comment on Re^12: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl

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Re^13: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Dec 22, 2007 at 09:17 UTC
Last word or not is your choice (now:). I have three different, and possibly equally unpalatable responses to the undertones in your post, but I will not post them because they would probably be taken as either petty, or defensive or "last word" material. They would not be. They would be, or could become with work, entirely serious and considered responses to both those undertones and the (IMO) single angle of the singular subject of this thread. But I will save them, perhaps, for another day and another thread or maybe another place. Because I have detected that you are unwilling to continue. (Intuitive ain't I :) (Please see the funny side and self-deprecation in that remark.) As with all this type of discussion, I have no desire to "convince you" to change your mind. Foremost is to either change my own mind, or ratify my own conclusions in the light of others consider opposing views. Second-most is to, perhaps, provide others with an alternative viewpoint. Finally, I choose the people I take the effort to argue with because I respect their record, experience and point of view, even if I disagree with it. There little or no mileage in pursuing extended conversation with those with whom you agree. There's nothing to learn. And, as I've said a couple of times before, my reason d'etre for coming here and sticking around is for me to learn. I sincerely thank you for you're interactions with me, in this thread and others. I always come away from them having either learnt something new, or having reinforced my previous conclusions. Both are equally valid, and valuable. To me. Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error. "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. "Too many [] have been sedated by an oppressive environment of political correctness and risk aversion."	[reply]
Re^14: Modern Perl and the Future of Perl by Cop (Initiate) on Dec 22, 2007 at 17:32 UTC
Enlighten me what others can learn from all your long and empty posts, other than you enjoyed typing. This thread ended up nothing more than a daily argument between two weak people.	[reply]