all data munging is push style templating

the display-preparation is simply shifted into Perl, and HTML-generation is reduced to a perfunctory, “empty,” non-task.

HTML is empty and a non-task... HTML-generation is not empty at all. How can you call writing methods to manipulate HTML empty?

and what you call a "simple shift" from pull style to push style is proven to create a more powerful templating system: the weakest push-style system is the strongest pull-style...

In a curious way, I think that the approach you are recommending here does “interleave” these two concerns, in an improper way. It is simply the opposite-extreme: the display-preparation is simply shifted into Perl, and HTML-generation is reduced to a perfunctory, “empty,” non-task.

What you call the "opposite-extreme" is actually best practice for data processing: processor and processed are completely separated, allowing flexible object-oriented composition.

Processing HTML need be no different than best practice for XML, databases, LDAP and so on .

But I am the person running Wordpress blogs, and drooling over Drupal for all of my personal sites. So while we both agree from a philosophical standpoint on how "WRONG" PHP is, we really both need to shut up and out-deliver. When we have useable web products on par with PHP, then our products can do the talking instead of the idle and empty chatter we are engaging in here.

I have beheld the tarball of 22.1 on ftp.gnu.org with my own eyes. How can you say that there is no God in the Church of Emacs? -- David Kastrup	`[tag://etl,templating]` [download]
Enforce strict model-view separation in template engines via HTML::Seamstress	The car is in the cdr, not the cdr in the car

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Re: all data munging is push style templating by Rhandom (Curate) on Feb 25, 2008 at 16:49 UTC
PHP's success has little to do with syntax, or model/view interleaving. PHP is successful because it is extremely easy to deploy and offers minimal sandboxing. I use CGI perl or mod_perl for all of my web based development. But I would not say that perl is as easy to deploy as PHP. If perl had a simple, more "secure-for-the-average-hosting-provider" sandboxing scheme, then you'd see perl more available and potentially as widely adopted as PHP is. A discussion of PHP vs Perl is barely related to a discussion of the merits of template systems. my @a=qw(random brilliant braindead); print $a[rand(@a)];	[reply]

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Re: all data munging is push style templating
by Rhandom (Curate) on Feb 25, 2008 at 16:49 UTC

my @a=qw(random brilliant braindead); print $a[rand(@a)];

[reply]