in reply to Re^9: Time::HiRes sleep does not always work
in thread Time::HiRes sleep does not always work

  1. Having made one long and painful foray into the world of driving IE from Perl via OLE (never again), and from the sounds of things in almost exactly the same time frame as you, I'll tell you that the cause of your problem was almost certainly cauased by unprocessed messages in IE message queue.

    If you could revisit that code now, and insert a few strategic Win32::OLE->SpinMessageLoop, you'd probably be able to cure that 1 in a 1000 event.

  2. However Windows has a history of being particularly bad in this regard.

    Yep. It was really bad in Win95/98/ME running third-party VB apps. That was quite a while ago...

  3. I was saying that uncertainty over whether your machine has been hacked or infected results in perceived non-determinism.

    That's like perceiving Fords as having bad fuel economy when you don't bother to keep your tyres correctly inflated.

  4. Read on a little further:
    OEMs may install third-party applications that launch in place of Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger, or Windows Firewall as enabled by Windows registry settings and other documented mechanisms.

    So, the OEMs are not "prevented by contract with Microsoft from doing anything more serious for security than installing a third party anti-virus product."!

    If every OEM installed (say)the free version of ZoneAlarm and configured it, there would be no botnets. I don't know for sure that Zone Labs would allow them to do that for free, but it seems like a reasonable bet that the opportunity for product placement and potential upsell would be pretty pursuasive.

    That one step alone wouldn't make user experts or careful, but it would at least make them aware.

    And then there is the whole thing of "or as permitted in the license agreement.". I don't know what is in there as they are not published, but if you've ever used a newly purchased Sony VIAO laptop and seen the amount of customisation, and mostly useless preinstalled crap, on their systems, you'd think they could find the time to install a decent firewall, browser and email program, rather than a bunch of root kits.

I'm no apologist for MS and roundly critisise them for their failings, but laying the blame for problems caused by badly installed/corrupted Perl modules, at their door, doesn't help anyone.

Yes. Windows system dominate the bulk of cracked hacked and rooted systems, but then they dominate the bulk of all installed systems, by a huge margin. And if even the US military fail to secure them properly, how do you expect the average non-geek to do so?

And as other systems and software become more prevalent, so they are being targeted. Witness the recent spate of Apple hacks; pdf and Flash hacks; Firefox hacks. The list goes on.

Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
"Too many [] have been sedated by an oppressive environment of political correctness and risk aversion."

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Re^11: Time::HiRes sleep does not always work
by zentara (Cardinal) on Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10 UTC
    And if even the US military fail to secure them properly, how do you expect the average non-geek to do so?

    You knew this was coming, with a setup like that...:-)

    By using a linux/unix type OS. You will notice that mission-critical military systems, do NOT use Windows....i.e. nuclear subs, etc. The use of Windows in the military was purely a political choice, because of heavy lobbying by Microsoft advocates to boost sales to the governement. The fact that they would risk the safety of soldiers, by relying on Microsoft security, is criminal in my opinion.

    And don't give me that argument that non-geeks can't do linux....it's just as easy as Windows, and installing is very easy nowadays. New Windows users go thru a heavy period of learning to point and click in the right places......linux is the same thing now.

    About the only argument Windows has going for it, is the ease of new driver installation, like Bluetooth, etc. But the reason for that is the sweetheart deals Microsoft makes with manufacturers, to prevent linux drivers from being released.

    I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth Remember How Lucky You Are
[reply]
      There was actually a fairly good legal case that they were criminal. Many Windows machines were purchased for purposes that, by law, you needed C2 certified machines for. Small problem, only Windows NT 3.5 service pack 3 was so certified.

      That they pulled this with Windows NT 3.51 was illegal but not that bad since it was the opinion of the person who got the first certification (Ed Curry) that 3.51 would have an easy time getting certified. However this was around the time frame that Windows NT 4.0 came out. And there were architectural changes (specifically moving graphics drivers into ring 0) which made NT 4.0 impossible to certify to the C2 standard. Yet Microsoft so-advertised 4.0 machines, and sold them to government offices that by law required that certification.

      And this was not just in roles where security didn't matter. For instance in 1998 the USS Yorktown was left stranded dead in the water and needed to be towed to port because its Windows NT based control system BSODed. If that ship, and ships like it, had been in a battle situation, how many lives would have been lost?

      Ed Curry pointed this out, and Microsoft destroyed his company in one of the nastiest displays of corporate politics that I've heard of. For example after his company had folded he got a job as a security expert. Before he started work they called his boss to be and said, "How much do we have to pay you to make you fire him before he starts?"

      A legal case against Microsoft for their lies about C2 certification was getting under way when Ed Curry died from a heart attack. Certainly the stress of his mistreatment by Microsoft contributed to that. Without Ed to serve as a witness the case petered out.

      I knew Ed online and considered him a friend. Yet another reason I don't like Microsoft. As far as I am concerned they literally drove a friend to his death for daring to question their illegal business practices.

[reply]
        Yikes!! More ammo for the campaign. ;-)

        a fairly good legal case that they were criminal.

        But in Amerika, that dosn't matter if you own the politicians who appoint the judges. I remember when George W. stole his first term, it was just as Judge Jackson was going to find Microsoft guilty of anti-trust and was ordering it's breakup. Low and behold, Judge Jackson was removed, and his verdict was overturned, as soon as Bush got in. Later, the Supreme Court lackeys who ordered Bush to be president, just said "get over it". It sure destroyed any faith I had in the American political system.

        I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth Remember How Lucky You Are
[reply]
      You knew this was coming, with a setup like that...:-)

      Yup! :)

      And don't give me that argument that non-geeks can't do linux....it's just as easy as Windows, and installing is very easy nowadays.

      But with windows they don't have to install. And yes, there are OEMs that will preinstall some flavour of Linux. So why is the take up so low?

      The first part of the problem is:

      2X, 64 Studio, Absolute, AbulÉdu, ADIOS, Alinex, AliXe, ALT, Ankur Bangla, AnNyung, Arch, ArcheOS, Archie, Ark, ArtistX, AsianLinux, Asianux, ASLinux, ASPLinux, Astaro, Aurora, AUSTRUMI, B2D, BackTrack, Bayanihan, BeaFanatIX, BeleniX, Berry, Big Linux, BinToo, BioBrew, blackPanther, BLAG, Bluewhite64, BOSS, BU Linux, Burapha, Caixa Mágica, cAos, Càtix, CCux, CDlinux, Censornet, CentOS, ClarkConnect, Clonezilla, Clusterix, clusterKNOPPIX, Co-Create, College, Comfusion, Condorux, Coyote, CRUX, Damn Small, DANIX, DARKSTAR, Debian, Deep-Water, DeLi, DesktopBSD, Devil, Dizinha, DNALinux, Draco, DragonFly, Dreamlinux, dyne:bolic, Dzongkha, eAR OS, easys, eduKnoppix, EduLinux, Ehad, Ekaaty, eLearnix, Elive, elpicx, ELX, Endian, EnGarde, Epidemic, ERPOSS, Euronode, Everest, Evinux, EzPlanet One, Famelix, FaunOS, Fedora, Fermi, Finnix, Fluxbuntu, Foresight, FreeBSD, Freedows, Freeduc, FreeNAS, FreeSBIE, Freespire, Frenzy, Frugalware, FTOSX, GeeXboX, Gelecek, Gentoo, GentooTH, Gentoox, GEOLivre, Gibraltar, gNewSense, GNIX, gnuLinEx, GNUstep, GoblinX, GoboLinux, gOS, GParted, Grafpup, Granular, Greenie, grml, Guadalinex, Haansoft, Hacao, Helix, Hiweed, Honeywall, How-Tux, IDMS, Impi, IndLinux, Inquisitor, INSERT, Insigne, IPCop, JackLab, JoLinux, Julex, K12LTSP, Kaella, Kalango, KANOTIX, Karamad, Karoshi, KateOS, K-DEMar, Kiwi, Knoppel, Knopperdisk, KNOPPIX, KnoppMyth, KnoSciences, Komodo, Kubuntu, Kurumin, Kwort, L.A.S., LFS, LG3D, LinnexOS, Linpus, LinuxConsole, Linux-EduCD, linuX-gamers, Linux+ Live, LinuxTLE, Linux XP, Litrix, LiveCD Router, LiVux, LliureX, Loco, Lunar, m0n0wall, Magic, Mandriva, MAX, Mayix, Media Lab, MEPIS, MidnightBSD, MilaX, Mint, Miracle, MirOS, MoLinux, Momonga, Morphix, Muriqui, Murix, Musix, Mutagenix, Myah OS, myLinux, Myrinix, Mythbuntu, MythDora, Nature's, NeoShine, NepaLinux, NetBSD, NetSecL, Nexenta, Niigata, NimbleX, Nitix, Nonux, Novell SLE, NST, nUbuntu, NuxOne, Olive, OliveBSD, OLPC, Omoikane, O-Net, OpenBSD, Openfiler, OpenGEU, OpenLab, OpenLX, openmamba, OpenNA, OpenSolaris, openSUSE, Openwall, Ophcrack, Oracle, PAIPIX, paldo, PapugLinux, Pardus, Parsix, Parted Magic, PC-BSD, PCLinuxOS, PelicanHPC, Penguin Sleuth, Pentoo, pfSense, Pie Box, Pilot, Pingo, Pingwinek, Pioneer, Plamo, PLD, Poseidon, pQui, Protech, PUD, Puppy, QiLinux, Rails Live, RAYS, Red Flag, Red Hat, redWall, Resulinux, RIPLinuX, ROCK, Rocks Cluster, RoFreeSBIE, ROSLIMS, rPath, RUNT, Sabayon, SAM, SaxenOS, SchilliX, Scientific, Securepoint, Shift, sidux, Skolelinux, Slackintosh, Slackware, Slamd64, SLAMPP, Slax, SliTaz, SME Server, SmoothWall, SoL, Solaris, Sorcerer, Source Mage, StartCom, STD, StressLinux, STUX, SuliX, SuperGamer, Swecha, Symphony OS, SystemRescue, T2, TA-Linux, TEENpup, TFM, Thinstation, Thisk, Tilix, TinyMe, tinysofa, Topologilinux, Trinity, Trisquel, trixbox, TrueBSD, Truva, TumiX, TupiServer, Tuquito, Turbolinux, Ubuntu, UbuntuME, Ubuntu Studio, Ufficio Zero, UHU-Linux, Ulteo, Ultima, Ultimate, Untangle, Userful, Ututo, Vector, Vine, Vixta.org, VMKnoppix, VNLinux, Voltalinux, Vyatta, Wazobia, Webconverger, White Box, WIENUX, Wolvix, Xandros, X-Evian, Xfld, X/OS, Xteam, Xubuntu, Yellow Dog, Yoper, Zenwalk, ZoneCD...

      And that's without really trying.

      If the geeks can't decide on what Linux is or should be, how do you expect nanny to?

      Another part is all those incompatible application installation tools: APT, DEB, RPM, Portage, pkgtools, URPMI, SMART, YUM, YaST...

      Then there are the forks, instabilities and developer infighting...

      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
[reply]

        Oh please! I've been working with Linux professionally for almost a decade now and think I've kept pretty much on top of the interesting distributions out there. I haven't even heard of less more than a percent of the names you mention and many of the names you list (OpenBSD, FreeBSD, GNUstep, OpenSolaris) are as much Linux as Windows is a BSD-ripoff. Just where did you conjure that list from?

        And that's without really trying.

        Maybe you should have tried.

        If "nanny" wants to decide which Linux distribution she wants to use she's got about a half-dozen good candidates to choose from, and the decision should be a lot easier than choosing between preinstalled XP and Vista (one will run the software I want to use, the other will work on the hardware I just bought...).

        I'm no apologist for MS...

        Yeah right.


        All dogma is stupid.
[reply]
[d/l]
        I'm sure Walmart would love a government a contract to supply the military with pre-installed linux laptops. They all would get a certain set of programs, depending on their standardized needs. They would have a central server, (like Lindows used), to provide updates and new programs if authorized. Login via https, enter your passwords, and get a tgz package. They could even have a Perl script to auto-install the tgz. Military computers shouldn't be open to their users installing anything they want, so the red herring of all those linux programs available confusing soldiers, is moot. They don't install or upgrade unless ordered to, and then only from the special server.

        Let me ask you..... if you had your own military, would you tell them to use Windows? You probably would choose a specially designed distro, based on Security Enhanced Linux The desktop would be a very simple menu system, with standard icons for map reading/writing, photo/video shooting, connections to radar display, howto's for various weapons, and 1 click ammo ordering. :-)

        But, there is also the problem of the intelligence of the military, so linux may not benefit them in terms of security...... the general would probably proclaim that all root passwords be set to the name of his dog, to ensure that all laptops be accessible by any soldier. But even if that occurred, at least there would be no viruses spreading.

        I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth Remember How Lucky You Are
[reply]

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