I love perl but....

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: I love perl but.... by Beatnik (Parson) on May 22, 2001 at 14:09 UTC
Check mason and embperl on HTML::Mason... What is the best tool to embed perl in HTML? is nice too... Greetz Beatnik ... Quidquid perl dictum sit, altum viditur.	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by jeroenes (Priest) on May 22, 2001 at 14:10 UTC
I guess we share our love ;-). Embedding perl in html can be done, but the reverse is more versatile. Generate HTML with perl! Look at CGI and the Template toolkit for convenient methods. Including is no problem at all. Example: `open INCL, "path_to_include_file"; { local $/ = undef; print <INCL>; } close INCL;` [download] The local and {} make the code cleaner, it works even without them. On unix, you can also use the following shorthand: print `cat path_to_include_file`; [download] Hope this helps, Jeroen "We are not alone"(FZ) Fixed error. See Why or why not? - local undef $/	[reply] [d/l] [select]
Re: Re: I love perl but.... by japhy (Canon) on May 22, 2001 at 19:49 UTC
Do not do `local undef $/` `japhy` -- Perl and Regex Hacker	[reply]
Re:(Zigster) I love perl but.... by zigster (Hermit) on May 22, 2001 at 14:45 UTC
Install Active Perl on your NT box and you get PerlScript Quote: PerlScript is an ActiveX scripting engine that allows you to use Perl with any ActiveX scripting host. At this time, ActiveX scripting hosts include: Internet Information Server 3.0/4.0 Peer Web Services 3.0/4.0 Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0x Windows Scripting Host In truth tho, perl is a very flexible language as you will often see on this site TIMTOWTDI (there is more than one way to do it) your are placing the solution before the problem. ASP and the like are cool SOLUTIONS but so is perl it's SOLUTIONS are just different. I would suggest taking a look at perl script. It will allow you to map your current methodology. I would futher sugest taking a fresh look at your PROBLEMS and see how you may solve them in perl. The rest of this thread gives some excellent advice regarding using perl with web based applications. -- Zigster	[reply]
Re: Re:(Zigster) I love perl but.... by Odud (Pilgrim) on May 22, 2001 at 18:41 UTC
Zigster, Perhaps it is just my local configuration but I've found PerlScript to be very slow. I'd assumed that it was suffering from reloading the interpreter everytime the page was displayed - i.e. the problem that mod_perl fixes at the server end. Do you find the performance to be acceptable?	[reply]
Re: Re: Re:(Zigster) I love perl but.... by zigster (Hermit) on May 23, 2001 at 11:57 UTC
To be honest I have not used perlscript in anger. I use CGI where I can. I have played with it enuff to know it exists and may help out in this circumstance. -- Zigster	[reply]
Re: embedding PERL in HTML by gregor42 (Parson) on May 22, 2001 at 19:25 UTC
the only problem i have with Perl is its lack of web oriented functions and abilities (like embedding perl in html, 'includes' as in asp and php etc) Well I won't belabor the point of "lack of web oriented functions" other than to suggest looking at http://search.cpan.org and putting HTML into the search field. However, I will underline a point made briefly by my fellow monks above: Mixing Programming Code & HTML is a Bad Idea. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the basic idea is that HTML coders & programmers are not usually the same people. They have different skill-sets & pay-scales. Most companies are smart enough not to waste a programmer's salary to have someone make changes to web pages that are buried in code. Further, it is an unofficial, but still hard & fast rule that programmers are not designers & designers are not programmers. As such you will find that companies tend to go outside to agencies when giving the web site a 'face lift.' This introduces a lot of people with no business having access to the programming code mucking around in the HTML. Active Server Pages & Java Server Pages have the ability to embed code directly in them. However you will notice that JSP aithors are encouraged to encapsulate their code in JavaBeans to keep the HTML clean and ASP is currently migrating towards the '.NET' paradigm which is similar. So I would also advise you, as others have above, to have a look at the Module in CPAN called HTML::Template. It's a very good starting point for thinking in terms of separation of logic & content with PERL. Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by Hero Zzyzzx (Curate) on May 22, 2001 at 18:19 UTC
If you really want to bump up your perl/HTML skillz, check out HTML::Template. I love this module. It's very simple, and it allows you to plug perl output into pure HTML files. Very elegant and powerful, and works EXCELLENTLY with mod_perl. It's not embedding perl in HTML, but I think it makes for MUCH more maintainable and understandable web apps by separating code from HTML clearly. Using HTML::Template, you don't end up with nasty code that mixes HTML in to perl scripts, seriously impeding maintability. Update:Umm, yeah. . . what gregor42 said below. . .	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by runrig (Abbot) on May 22, 2001 at 19:57 UTC
Another interesting alternative is HTML::Tree. There's an old version on CPAN, but I don't know why the author doesn't put the new version there. It's a module that allows you to create templates kind of like HTML::Template except that the template is 100% valid HTML, thereby completely separating your code and presentation. Update: Hero Zzyzzx is right, HTML::Template could be made valid HTML, but then your template is even uglier than before. And viewing the file in a browser, you have blank areas where data would go (unless you actually run the 'program'), whereas with HTML::Tree you can view real sample data (in a WYSIWYG sort of way).	[reply]
Re: Re: I love perl but.... by Hero Zzyzzx (Curate) on May 22, 2001 at 20:07 UTC
Not to be nitpicky, but you can have 100% valid HTML with HTML::Template too. You can embed the variables, if-thens, and loops in HTML comments. You can then run the HTML through a validator, if you desire.	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by ozzy (Sexton) on May 22, 2001 at 20:52 UTC
I find it that i have more fun with Perl than JSP/Servlets. Perl has just as many ASP/JSP style functions that make my life much easier. HTML::Mason HTML::Embperl HTML::Template Are great templating systems, which will make your life just as easy as those ASP/JSP style functions. -= Ozzy =-	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by Anonymous Monk on May 22, 2001 at 21:36 UTC
Check these out: HTML::Embperl perl.apache.org/embperl HTML::Mason www.masonhq.com Apache::ASP www.apache-asp.org CGI::FastTemplate www.sober.com Others perl.apache.org Enjoy! Eric	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by blue_cowdawg (Monsignor) on May 23, 2001 at 00:44 UTC
I'm sorry, but you must not have checked out the CPAN site very closely. There are scads of (well maybe not scads... how many is a scad anyway...) ways to embed Perl inside of HTML. As far as ASP goes I must say that in my experience I haven't really seen anything done with ASP that either embedded perl, mod_perl, or just plain CGI couldn't accomplish. I also seem to remember that benchmark comparisons between PHP and Perl seemed to favor Perl FWIW. Check out the following on CPAN: HTML::EP HTML::Mason Apache::ASP ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Peter L. Berghold --- Peter@Berghold.Net "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by tachyon (Chancellor) on May 22, 2001 at 22:46 UTC
You are aware of CGI.pm I presume. After a review of the free standard modules, what functionality do you miss??? Here is a list of web related free modules that come with the standard distribution of perl. Sincere apologies to the hundred of authors of thousands of modules not explicitly mentioned. For details see http://www.CPAN.org NB: CPAN is the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network. tachyon Benchmark Bundle DBD CSV mysql DBI LWP Business CreditCard Carp CGI Apache Carp Cookie Fast Imagemap Pretty Push Screen Switch XMLForm Chart Class Compress Zlib Config CPAN Crypt Date Calc Format Manip Parse DB DBD ADO CSV DB2 dbd-sybase File Multiplex mysql ODBC Oracle Proxy Sybase DBI DBD FAQ Format ProxyServer Shell W32ODBC DB_File Digest DirHandle Fatal Fcntl File Basename CheckTree Compare Copy CounterFile DosGlob Find Glob Listing Path Recurse Slurp Spec Functions Mac OS2 Unix VMS Win32 stat Tools FileCache FileHandle Filter cpp decrypt exec sh tee Util Call Exec FindBin Font AFM Graph Kruskal HTML AsSubs Element Entities Filter Form FormatPS Formatter FormatText HeadParser LinkExtor Parse Parser Stream Template TokeParser TreeBuilder HTTP Cookies Daemon Date Headers Util Message Negotiate Request Common Response Status I18N Image Size IO AtomicFile Dir File Handle Lines Pipe Poll Scalar ScalarArray Seekable Select Socket INET UNIX Stringy Wrap WrapTie IPC Locale Country Language LWP Debug MediaTypes MemberMixin Protocol RobotUA Simple UserAgent Mail POP3Client Math MD5 MIME Base64 Lite QuotedPrint MLDBM Mysql NDBM_File Net Bind Resolv Utils Cmd DNS Header Packet Question Resolver RR A AAAA AFSDB CNAME EID HINFO ISDN LOC MB MG MINFO MR MX NAPTR NIMLOC NS NSAP NULL PTR PX RP RT SOA SRV TXT X25 Update Domain DummyInetd FTP hostent LDAP BER Constant Entry FAQ Filter LDIF Message Reference Schema Search Util netent Netrc NNTP PH Ping POP3 protoent servent SMTP SNPP Telnet Time Whois Netscape History HistoryURL News Newsrc NNTPClient POE POSIX PPM SOAPClient SOAPServer SGMLS Output Refs SHA Shell SOAP Defs Envelope EnvelopeMaker GenericHashSerializer GenericInputStream GenericScalarSerializer OutputStream Packager Parser HTTP Apache CGI Client Server TypeMapper Socket Sort PolySort SQL Eval Statement Statistics Storable String Sybase BCP Symbol Sys Hostname Syslog Test Harness Text Abbrev CSV_XS German Metaphone ParseWords Soundex Striphigh Tabs Template Vpp Wrap Thread Queue Semaphore Signal Specific Tie Time gmtime HiRes Local localtime Period tm Zone Tk User Win32 Win32API WWW RobotRules AnyDBM_File Search AltaVista AdvancedNews AdvancedWeb Careers Intranet News Web Classifieds Employment Crawler Dice EuroSeek Excite News ExciteForWebServers Fireball FolioViews Google Gopher GoTo HeadHunter HotFiles Infoseek Companies Email News Web Livelink LookSmart Lycos Pages Sites MetaCrawler Metapedia Monster MSIndexServer NetFind NorthernLight Null PLweb Search97 SFgate Simple Snap Test Verity VoilaFr WebCrawler Classifieds Employment ZDNet SearchResult XML DOM Element Parser Expat PPD PPMConfig ValidatingElement	[reply]
Re: I love perl but.... by Anonymous Monk on May 23, 2001 at 01:37 UTC
There are lots of different solutions to this issue, depending on what problem you are addressing. here's a couple of pretty darn good ones http://www.template-toolkit.org/ http://perl.apache.org/embperl/ among others hth --mark	[reply]

Embedding perl in html can be done, but the reverse is more versatile. Generate HTML with perl! Look at CGI and the Template toolkit for convenient methods.

Including is no problem at all. Example:

open INCL, "path_to_include_file";
{ 
  local $/ = undef;
  print <INCL>;
}
close INCL;
[download]

On unix, you can also use the following shorthand:

print `cat path_to_include_file`;
[download]

Jeroen
"We are not alone"(FZ)
Fixed error. See Why or why not? - local undef $/

[reply]
[d/l]
[select]

Do not do local undef $/

japhy

Perl and Regex Hacker

[reply]

PerlScript

Quote:
PerlScript is an ActiveX scripting engine that allows you to use Perl with any ActiveX scripting host. At this time, ActiveX scripting hosts include:

Internet Information Server 3.0/4.0
Peer Web Services 3.0/4.0
Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0x
Windows Scripting Host

In truth tho, perl is a very flexible language as you will often see on this site TIMTOWTDI (there is more than one way to do it) your are placing the solution before the problem. ASP and the like are cool SOLUTIONS but so is perl it's SOLUTIONS are just different. I would suggest taking a look at perl script. It will allow you to map your current methodology. I would futher sugest taking a fresh look at your PROBLEMS and see how you may solve them in perl. The rest of this thread gives some excellent advice regarding using perl with web based applications.
--

Zigster

[reply]

the only problem i have with Perl is its lack of web oriented functions and abilities (like embedding perl in html, 'includes' as in asp and php etc)

Well I won't belabor the point of "lack of web oriented functions" other than to suggest looking at http://search.cpan.org and putting HTML into the search field.

However, I will underline a point made briefly by my fellow monks above:

Mixing Programming Code & HTML is a Bad Idea.

There are a lot of reasons for this, but the basic idea is that HTML coders & programmers are not usually the same people. They have different skill-sets & pay-scales.

Most companies are smart enough not to waste a programmer's salary to have someone make changes to web pages that are buried in code.

Further, it is an unofficial, but still hard & fast rule that programmers are not designers & designers are not programmers. As such you will find that companies tend to go outside to agencies when giving the web site a 'face lift.' This introduces a lot of people with no business having access to the programming code mucking around in the HTML.

Active Server Pages & Java Server Pages have the ability to embed code directly in them. However you will notice that JSP aithors are encouraged to encapsulate their code in JavaBeans to keep the HTML clean and ASP is currently migrating towards the '.NET' paradigm which is similar.

So I would also advise you, as others have above, to have a look at the Module in CPAN called HTML::Template. It's a very good starting point for thinking in terms of separation of logic & content with PERL.

Wait! This isn't a Parachute, this is a Backpack!

[reply]

If you really want to bump up your perl/HTML skillz, check out HTML::Template. I love this module. It's very simple, and it allows you to plug perl output into pure HTML files.

Very elegant and powerful, and works EXCELLENTLY with mod_perl. It's not embedding perl in HTML, but I think it makes for MUCH more maintainable and understandable web apps by separating code from HTML clearly.

Using HTML::Template, you don't end up with nasty code that mixes HTML in to perl scripts, seriously impeding maintability.

Update:Umm, yeah. . . what gregor42 said below. . .

[reply]

HTML::Tree

HTML::Template

Update: Hero Zzyzzx is right, HTML::Template could be made valid HTML, but then your template is even uglier than before. And viewing the file in a browser, you have blank areas where data would go (unless you actually run the 'program'), whereas with HTML::Tree you can view real sample data (in a WYSIWYG sort of way).

[reply]

Not to be nitpicky, but you can have 100% valid HTML with HTML::Template too. You can embed the variables, if-thens, and loops in HTML comments. You can then run the HTML through a validator, if you desire.

[reply]

ASP/JSP

HTML::Mason
HTML::Embperl
HTML::Template

ASP/JSP

[reply]

Check these out:

HTML::Embperl: perl.apache.org/embperl
HTML::Mason: www.masonhq.com
Apache::ASP: www.apache-asp.org
CGI::FastTemplate: www.sober.com
Others: perl.apache.org

Enjoy!

Eric

[reply]

I'm sorry, but you must not have checked out the CPAN site very closely. There are scads of (well maybe not scads... how many is a scad anyway...) ways to embed Perl inside of HTML.

As far as ASP goes I must say that in my experience I haven't really seen anything done with ASP that either embedded perl, mod_perl, or just plain CGI couldn't accomplish.

I also seem to remember that benchmark comparisons between PHP and Perl seemed to favor Perl FWIW.

Check out the following on CPAN:

HTML::EP
HTML::Mason
Apache::ASP

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peter L. Berghold --- Peter@Berghold.Net
"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

[reply]

You are aware of CGI.pm I presume.

After a review of the free standard modules, what functionality
do you miss??? 

Here is a list of web related free modules that come with 
the *standard* distribution of perl. Sincere apologies to 
the hundred of authors of thousands of modules not 
explicitly mentioned. For details see http://www.CPAN.org

NB: CPAN is the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network.

tachyon

   Benchmark
   Bundle
     DBD
         CSV
         mysql
     DBI
     LWP
   Business
     CreditCard
   Carp
   CGI
     Apache
     Carp
     Cookie
     Fast
     Imagemap
     Pretty
     Push
     Screen
     Switch
     XMLForm
   Chart
   Class
   Compress
     Zlib
   Config
   CPAN
   Crypt
   Date
     Calc
     Format
     Manip
     Parse
   DB
   DBD
     ADO
     CSV
     DB2
     dbd-sybase
     File
     Multiplex
     mysql
     ODBC
     Oracle
     Proxy
     Sybase
   DBI
     DBD
     FAQ
     Format
     ProxyServer
     Shell
     W32ODBC
   DB_File
   Digest
   DirHandle
   Fatal
   Fcntl
   File
     Basename
     CheckTree
     Compare
     Copy
     CounterFile
     DosGlob
     Find
     Glob
     Listing
     Path
     Recurse
     Slurp
     Spec
         Functions
         Mac
         OS2
         Unix
         VMS
         Win32
     stat
     Tools
   FileCache
   FileHandle
   Filter
     cpp
     decrypt
     exec
     sh
     tee
     Util
         Call
         Exec
   FindBin
   Font
     AFM
   Graph
     Kruskal
   HTML
     AsSubs
     Element
     Entities
     Filter
     Form
     FormatPS
     Formatter
     FormatText
     HeadParser
     LinkExtor
     Parse
     Parser
     Stream
     Template
     TokeParser
     TreeBuilder
   HTTP
     Cookies
     Daemon
     Date
     Headers
         Util
     Message
     Negotiate
     Request
         Common
     Response
     Status
   I18N
   Image
     Size
   IO
     AtomicFile
     Dir
     File
     Handle
     Lines
     Pipe
     Poll
     Scalar
     ScalarArray
     Seekable
     Select
     Socket
         INET
         UNIX
     Stringy
     Wrap
     WrapTie
   IPC
   Locale
     Country
     Language
   LWP
     Debug
     MediaTypes
     MemberMixin
     Protocol
     RobotUA
     Simple
     UserAgent
   Mail
     POP3Client
   Math
   MD5
   MIME
     Base64
     Lite
     QuotedPrint
   MLDBM
   Mysql
   NDBM_File
   Net
     Bind
         Resolv
         Utils
     Cmd
     DNS
         Header
         Packet
         Question
         Resolver
         RR
             A
             AAAA
             AFSDB
             CNAME
             EID
             HINFO
             ISDN
             LOC
             MB
             MG
             MINFO
             MR
             MX
             NAPTR
             NIMLOC
             NS
             NSAP
             NULL
             PTR
             PX
             RP
             RT
             SOA
             SRV
             TXT
             X25
         Update
     Domain
     DummyInetd
     FTP
     hostent
     LDAP
         BER
         Constant
         Entry
         FAQ
         Filter
         LDIF
         Message
         Reference
         Schema
         Search
         Util
     netent
     Netrc
     NNTP
     PH
     Ping
     POP3
     protoent
     servent
     SMTP
     SNPP
     Telnet
     Time
     Whois
   Netscape
     History
     HistoryURL
   News
     Newsrc
     NNTPClient
   POE
   POSIX
   PPM
     SOAPClient
     SOAPServer
   SGMLS
     Output
     Refs
   SHA
   Shell
   SOAP
     Defs
     Envelope
     EnvelopeMaker
     GenericHashSerializer
     GenericInputStream
     GenericScalarSerializer
     OutputStream
     Packager
     Parser
         HTTP
             Apache
             CGI
             Client
             Server
     TypeMapper
   Socket
   Sort
     PolySort
   SQL
     Eval
     Statement
   Statistics
   Storable
   String
   Sybase
     BCP
   Symbol
   Sys
     Hostname
     Syslog
   Test
     Harness
   Text
     Abbrev
     CSV_XS
     German
     Metaphone
     ParseWords
     Soundex
     Striphigh
     Tabs
     Template
     Vpp
     Wrap
   Thread
     Queue
     Semaphore
     Signal
     Specific
   Tie
   Time
     gmtime
     HiRes
     Local
     localtime
     Period
     tm
     Zone
   Tk
   User
   Win32
   Win32API
   WWW
     RobotRules
         AnyDBM_File
     Search
         AltaVista
             AdvancedNews
             AdvancedWeb
             Careers
             Intranet
             News
             Web
             Classifieds
                 Employment
         Crawler
         Dice
         EuroSeek
         Excite
             News
         ExciteForWebServers
         Fireball
         FolioViews
         Google
         Gopher
         GoTo
         HeadHunter
         HotFiles
         Infoseek
             Companies
             Email
             News
             Web
         Livelink
         LookSmart
         Lycos
             Pages
             Sites
         MetaCrawler
         Metapedia
         Monster
         MSIndexServer
         NetFind
         NorthernLight
         Null
         PLweb
         Search97
         SFgate
         Simple
         Snap
         Test
         Verity
         VoilaFr
         WebCrawler
             Classifieds
                 Employment
         ZDNet
     SearchResult
   XML
     DOM
     Element
     Parser
         Expat
     PPD
     PPMConfig
     ValidatingElement

[reply]

There are lots of different solutions to this issue, depending on what problem you are addressing. here's a couple of pretty darn good ones http://www.template-toolkit.org/ http://perl.apache.org/embperl/ among others hth --mark

[reply]