Re^2: Moose warnings

The last time I mentioned those Java-style backtraces as undesirable, the #moose folks (who used same nicknames as the Moose developers usually use) said that this was intended and that huge backtraces are what you usually want.

I think this is a sign that Moose is enterprise-ready by cargo-culting things that Java does and telling the customer that the behaviour is what they should like.

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Re^3: Moose warnings by stvn (Monsignor) on May 06, 2010 at 19:42 UTC
I think this is a sign that Moose is enterprise-ready by cargo-culting things that Java does and telling the customer that the behaviour is what they should like. Actually, Java makes stack traces optional, you only get them if you ask for them specifically, and people usually do ask for them since it makes debugging easier. The same is true with most any language which has first class exceptions. If I had to guess though, I would suspect that printing exception stack traces on error by default originated in Smalltalk before they showed up as optional things in Java, so you got your cargo sources wrong there. Additionally we are not forcing this choice on our "customers" anymore (and haven't for a very long time). You can use Moose::Error::Croak if you prefer the shorter less tedious (but also less descriptive) error messages. As for enterprise readiness, if a few verbose stack traces can help wear away the whole perception that Perl is dead and unmaintainable, then I am all for it ;) -stvn	[reply]

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Re^3: Moose warnings
by stvn (Monsignor) on May 06, 2010 at 19:42 UTC

I think this is a sign that Moose is enterprise-ready by cargo-culting things that Java does and telling the customer that the behaviour is what they should like.

Actually, Java makes stack traces optional, you only get them if you ask for them specifically, and people usually do ask for them since it makes debugging easier. The same is true with most any language which has first class exceptions. If I had to guess though, I would suspect that printing exception stack traces on error by default originated in Smalltalk before they showed up as optional things in Java, so you got your cargo sources wrong there.

Additionally we are not forcing this choice on our "customers" anymore (and haven't for a very long time). You can use Moose::Error::Croak if you prefer the shorter less tedious (but also less descriptive) error messages.

As for enterprise readiness, if a few verbose stack traces can help wear away the whole perception that Perl is dead and unmaintainable, then I am all for it ;)

-stvn

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