ya know, i just don't get it. i read thought that whole doc today and just didn't see that. at any rate, i couldn't figure out how to use 'join =>' to do what i want, but 'prefetch => { grp_own => 'groups' }' works pretty decent.

i can't figure out how to limit the records i'm returning, and if i use 'select' it seems to mess up my data structure. though, i haven't played with it for that long now, so maybe it's just a matter of ' try harder' :)

thanks