Re: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it

Each community needs some means of protecting itself after it has grown to a certain size.

One of the protections of the Perl community is that certain people take up the role of the bastard and, among other things, yell at people who don't stick to the rules, and resort to bans if yelling wasn't successful.

I'm grateful that mst plays that role, so that I (and others) don't have to.

From your questions it sounds like you had some clashes with this role (you don't happen to own or have owned a 4-letter/digit nickname here on perlmonks?), and thus concluded that it's a bad role, and makes the Perl community less friendly.

From your perspective that's certainly a reasonable conclusion, but you have to ask yourself how else the Perl community could defend itself against people who don't stick to the rules. Any suggestions?

Perl 6 - second systems done right

Comment on Re: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^2: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by chromatic (Archbishop) on May 01, 2011 at 23:02 UTC
I'm grateful that mst plays that role, so that I (and others) don't have to. The debate over whether this role is the most appropriate way to protect the existing Perl community (or even if the existing Perl community needs such protection) could be interesting. Unfortunately, this thread is neither the best place nor the best approach to start such a discussion.	[reply]
Re^2: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by petdance (Parson) on May 03, 2011 at 21:42 UTC
No amount of not following the rules of a group warrants insults and degradation. xoxo, Andy	[reply]
Re^3: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by moritz (Cardinal) on May 04, 2011 at 06:34 UTC
I agree, and nowhere did I say that I approved with mst's methods. There needs to be somebody who calls out inappropriate behavior, and bans people who abuse services. Calling names isn't implicitly part of the role, and should be avoided. (And I have the impression that mst reduced his amount of swearing on IRC quite a bit, though there's still room for improvement). Perl 6 - second systems done right	[reply]
Re^4: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by petdance (Parson) on May 04, 2011 at 16:04 UTC
There needs to be somebody who calls out inappropriate behavior, and bans people who abuse services. We should all call out inappropriate behavior. My concern about "people who abuse services" is that it takes very little for people to be seen as abusing services, such as not asking a question the right way. I'd far rather we simply ignore the people who we don't care to help, rather than create a fight. Calling names isn't implicitly part of the role, and should be avoided. Calling names must be avoided. There is simply no case where insulting or degrading someone is the best response. xoxo, Andy	[reply]
Re^2: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by anonymized user 468275 (Curate) on May 06, 2011 at 14:31 UTC
Although I agree with the overall point you make, I do struggle with the first line i.e. that need for protection correlates with size? I think actually that the smaller a community, with the individual being the smallest case, the more protection it needs from bigger groups or these days those claiming to represent the group by a faked mandate. In an ideal world there needs to be global protection for the individual instead of groups delegating the power to fight other groups over differences which are usually exaggerated by those in power - power needs trouble to survive at the expense of the community - because a community is in reality a collection of individuals whose community status tends to be imposed by those seeking power over others in the first place. One world, one people	[reply]
Re^3: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by moritz (Cardinal) on May 06, 2011 at 14:43 UTC
I do struggle with the first line i.e. that need for protection correlates with size That's what experience shows: in a community of only very few people, you can easily deal with all of them individually, and can often resolve conflicts before they escalate. Have you ever seen a three-people community plagued by a troll? I think actually that the smaller a community, with the individual being the smallest case, the more protection it needs from bigger groups or these days those claiming to represent the group by a faked mandate. The smaller a community is, the less attention it draws to it, so it doesn't need much protection either. Also I don't see the faked mandate as the main danger of communities, rather it's trolls sucking up their resources and poisoning the atmosphere. I think actually that the smaller a community, with the individual being the smallest case An individual being a community? That seems like a weird notion. Perl 6 - second systems done right	[reply]
Re^4: How to ask a question in the Perl community, and where to ask it by JavaFan (Canon) on May 06, 2011 at 15:58 UTC
Have you ever seen a three-people community plagued by a troll? You don't need a three-people community for trolling. One can troll an individual. An individual being a community? That seems like a weird notion. So, how many people does it take to form a community?	[reply]