There's lots of good discussion about the XP voting system, but it rarely mentions the most obvious thing about it.  (Of course, since it's obvious, there's probably no need to mention it, but nevertheless...)


The most important thing about the XP voting system is that it is a simple feedback mechanism.  That's its central purpose.  The particular standards for voting or the relative scores of different items are almost incidental.  It allows readers to tell writers that they've appreciated something they've read (for some value of 'appreciated') and allows writers to know that someone has appreciated something they've written (fsvo 'appreciated') -- and does it very unobtrusively.

This is very beneficial.  It is a Good Thing.  The other two alternatives are silence and verbosity -- not saying anything and leaving writers to wonder if anyone's out there or else adding streams of comments approving (or disapproving) the item.  Neither is desirable.  Either is capable of dragging down a site like this (with the disclaimer that there is no other site like this).

In addition, XP is fun!  (If it wasn't, it wouldn't work.  Nobody would do it.) It's a game -- one has a score, one affects the scores of others.  There is very little to win (mostly expanded clerical duties) and no known benefits outside the site (and game) itself.  In fact, in the interest of full disclosure, PM might post a notice like:

       "No warranty is stated or implied that sanctification by others of
        indeterminate piety will assure admission to providential realms
        in any possible future life."


That said, what is (or should be) the value of votes?

Ideally, the XP system serves as peer review and as a useful aid to those browsing the site.  In some immediate sense, it probably does.  Most of us come here in brief moments snatched from what we confidently refer to as "real life".  And with what time we have, we tend to click mostly on things which are quickly read and easily evaluated.

This leads to obervations (complaints more than not) like the one that short, amusing entries near the top of a thread get more votes than more thoughtful or detailed answers further down.  While this is, of course, a complete distortion of the ultimate value of the respective nodes, it is probably an accurate reflection of the numbers of people who "get" the various entries.

I know that when I come across a brief comment that gives me a lift during the workday, I click immediately.  In discussions, I just vote for the comments I agree with.  But when I'm looking at some code which may be of real benefit to me, I take longer (not always time I have).  I want to, at least, read it through, maybe test it, see if anyone has responded with the crushing "why don't you just use [CPAN:...]" (though that is not always a clincher -- plenty of times a bit of straightforward code can be more useful than yet another all-purpose cpan module).  I might even start to think about how it could be rewritten.

In the end, the items of exceptional value do seem to rise to the top. It is more in the relative value of all the contributions which in their accumulation contribute either value or noise, that the voting doesn't always get it right.

This leads to the most disturbing problem with XP: it isn't always fun.  Its particularly sad that there have been instances of semi-mechanical downvoting of particular people, apparently just to bother them.  But more generally, people can put a lot of thought and effort into something only to see casual comments garnering many more votes.  Many of us take our contributions here very seriously and can be quite intense about them -- after all, we are programmers (and programmers who like to program).  We can feel that our whole virtual selfs are judged in these votes, and, when dissappointed, we can feel cut to our virtual souls.

I can easily see a justification for a system in which casting a negative vote costs two votes and a double positive vote (for when you really, really mean it) costs three.  This might mitigate the oft-mentioned shortcomings of the system, but it takes away from the simplicity which supports its basic function: easy, steady, day-to-day feedback.

But no matter what, the basic paradox remains:  If the only people who participated here were expert enough to evaluate all nodes correctly, then we wouldn't need most of the nodes and most of us wouldn't be here.

Maybe the only thing to do is look past the numeric simplicity and consider each vote you make and each vote you get to have its own value.

  p

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: more XP experience
by grinder (Bishop) on Jul 09, 2001 at 20:44 UTC

    Something is flawed here. Maybe the site, maybe your reasoning, maybe me.

    Ideally, the XP system serves as peer review and as a useful aid to those browsing the site. In some immediate sense, it probably does.

    I could be missing something here, but if XP gives a guide to how good/useful/clever (pick any two) a node is, then I don't know what it is until after I have voted.

    In this respect the voting system here is very different from slashdot's moderation. Oops, I may be saying something silly here. Only once have I been blessed with moderater status on slashdot and I can't recall whether the score is hidden or not. But I believe that it is visible before you cast your vote.

    What I am trying to say is that XP doesn't really help you sort the sheep from the goats, you have to expend a precious vote to find out what other people thought about a particular node (unless it has been blessed or cursed). That is, people casually browsing the site have no idea whether one node with a bit of reasonable looking code has a rep of -5 (because it didn't use strict) or a rep of +23 (because it replaced a mess of code by an elegant hack involving File::Find).

    update: Well, you learn something everyday. chromatic just messaged me to say that in fact you can get an idea of rank by setting Note order to Best first instead of Chronological in user settings. So I'm going to experiment with that for a while. Although it begs the question, why can't you view notes sorted by the poster's total XP?...


    --
    g r i n d e r
      FYI: you see the current ratings when you are a moderator at slashdot, considering that one of the 'catagories' of moderation is 'overrated', in addition to the fact that I've had moderation more than enough times there to know this ;-)


      Dr. Michael K. Neylon - mneylon-pm@masemware.com || "You've left the lens cap of your mind on again, Pinky" - The Brain
      True. Only through best nodes (or indirectly by sorting a monk's writeups) do we get this benefit at all.

        p

Re: more XP experience
by agoth (Chaplain) on Jul 09, 2001 at 20:26 UTC
    I don't usually comment when I downvote things, but will be downvoting this tomorrow unless I get run over by a bus.

    It's all true, I don't disagree with a thing the OP has said, however I see nothing at all new or necessary in the post.

    I'll be interested to see if I'm way off on nodes to consider (level 5/6 and above i think) in a couple of days, I may be...

    Maybe its a reaction to seeing the same thing come up time after time after time and newer people will disagree..