Now, before too many of you down-vote this as a way off topic "meditation", I will state that I value the opinions of my fellow monks, and seek some advice that I know will come untainted by personal bias, religious flame wars and the like. For those who are not interested in this Linux stuff, please move on.

OK, for those that have remained: I have just dusted off an old computer that I installed Linux on about 3 years ago. Since I am currently jobless, and don't have access to my old Unix systems (and hence, a good source of Perl hacking), this is a good way to spend my time, keeping my skills fresh. However, the version of Linux on this machine is old - it is Red Hat 5.2, running Kernel 2.0.36. The machine has lots of capacity - an AMD K6 running at 333MHz, with 64MB of memory, a 250 MB disk (for booting Win 98) and the main 8GB disk for Linux.

What I am seeking is recommendations on a suitable distribution to get to upgrade the current version with. Let me outline my requirements:

I am not scared of the Unix command line, I can (and have) configured systems such as Solaris 2.6, so I don't need no wimpy GUI configurator tool. In fact, I prefer knowing excatly how the system initialises everything, so I know exactly what is and isn't running.

What are other monk's experiences? The latest Linux kernel is 2.4.x, are there distributions available using this one? Where are reputable places to obtain the product - either on line or any good chains that would be around Dallas, Texas?

Finally, I will most likely be taking a huge version jump - would people recommend removing the complete Red Hat 5.2 install, and starting with a clean, fresh disk? There is nothing on the current disk that is not replaceable.

Thanks in advance for both your indulgance of a non-perl question, and for your advice and experience.

Ken (Maclir) Ray

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by wine (Scribe) on Jul 22, 2001 at 00:34 UTC

    OK, you're right, it's kinda offtopic ;).

    I'm using debian as the distribution of my choice. There are a couple of reasons why I prefer this distro above RedHat or Mandrake (used them both for more than one year):

    • Great package-management system. It's easy due to it's front-end (apt-get) and has almost flawless dependency checking. Packages are generally of really good quality.
    • Good bugtracking and fast updates
    • Really responsive group of maintainers

    Debian is more troublesome to set up, than RH, but this really pays off in te long run. You only need to run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade everyday, to have a the new versions of all the software installed on your system.

    All of the programs you mention, will run on any distro, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    With respect to your kernel requiments, you really should try to compile your own kernel. For one you learn a lot about your computer, and besides that, your kernel will be significantly faster.

    Good luck with the penguin!

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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by jepri (Parson) on Jul 22, 2001 at 00:49 UTC
    I have to agree with wine, as well as adding a reason to avoid mandrake: it has really suckworthy gateway setup options. It will only gateway the 192.168 network, and if you override it it will sullenly break other networking tools in revenge. If you make any changes to config files, it will overwite them, because it keeps it's own settings in a separate database and writes new config files every single time you change something.

    To install Debian, download the boot discs, then do a network install, or buy the installation CDROMs from the suppliers listed at Debian. If you ask around the local Linux user group you will probably find someone happy to cut you a set for cost. Personally I give 'em away for free.

    You may also want to consider going a little further afield and checking out BSD.

    I wish someone would start a Debian/BSD project sometime.

    ____________________
    Jeremy
    I didn't believe in evil until I dated it.

[reply]
      I wish someone would start a Debian/BSD project sometime.
      I am jumping in here rather late, but I wanted to point out that there is such a project that has been going on, although it does not seem to be very active. There is a mailing list for this project. Look at http://lists.debian.org.
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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by perigeeV (Hermit) on Jul 22, 2001 at 02:50 UTC
    Random Musings(TM):

    Red Hat is good to know because it is arguably the most "corporate friendly" distro. This is an advantage if you want to seek employment is a linux-rich environment. Red Hat has a for-pay update service vs. Debian's apt system, but I've always just munged Red Hat's website with...wait for it...Perl and auto-updated that way.

    Slackware - The Forgotten Distro. My favorite. Simple and solid. Slack is as close to BSD as you can get while still stamping "Linux" on the CD. Slack takes the approach that you're going to be using the command line anyway, so why muck things up with buggy GUIs.

    BSD. Run one for week and you'll see why the BSD folks think linux users are lame. Install OpenBSD now, try it, if you don't like it fdisk it away.

    Regarding you question on fresh install vs. upgrade from 5.2: Upgrading will have you chasing dependencies for days. Wipe it and start fresh.

    A parting link: Linux From Scratch. Build your own!

    Update: Bah! scottstef beat me to it! Linux from scratch really does rock.

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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by arhuman (Vicar) on Jul 22, 2001 at 00:43 UTC
    I think good choices could be RedHat or Suse, but I'd recommend Mandrake 8.0

    • The installation is one of the simplest I've ever seen.
    • As it's RedHat based, you can use rpm if you want to
    • 2.4 kernel
    • Perl with some useful modules...
    • Pre-made setup (Server, Workstation) AND custopm setup
    • A lot of useful SysadminTools (sometimes lacking in other distrib) available (Tcpdump, nmap)
    • Active distro, excellent Website : with frequent updates/patches, mailing-list...

    What I really like is that a lot of things are automatically installed with the pre-made setup (ssh,Apache with PHP/Mod_perl,MySql...)
    It's also its main default : you'll need a big disk beccause A LOT of tools are installed
    (Or you'll have to spend time to carefully choose which one you want in the expert setup...)

    The other drawback is that Mandrake use by default a non standard kernel
    (more accuratly a kernel modified for security) which requires special patches (or requires you to install a standard Kernel))

    Now if you're not sticked to Linux, you should give a try to OpenBSD 2.9
    The install is the simplest and the fastest I've ever seen
    (far beyond Windoze, or linux distros...)
    5 min is all you need (!) to have a SECURE server
    (ie: ready to go online and stand all the script-kiddies' attacks...)

    "Only Bad Coders Code Badly In Perl" (OBC2BIP)
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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by scottstef (Curate) on Jul 22, 2001 at 02:33 UTC
    Normally I would reccomend openbsd, it is increadble secure, and offers a great perl environment. Remember how bored and curious I got last time I was unemployed, and you seem to really want to delve into the workings of your system, I would wholeheartedly reccommend linux from scratch Their web page analygizes it similar to building a house, they will give you a skeleton, you get to finsih it.

    "The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall

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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by TStanley (Canon) on Jul 22, 2001 at 04:51 UTC
    To put in my .02 cents, I have found the RedHat distributions to be a fairly easy install process, and they are in sync with CPAN for the latest version of Perl. I installed RedHat 7.0 sometime back, after it first came out, and it had Perl 5.6.0 as part of the initial install. I have also heard some good things about OpenBSD as well, especially the install process which is very easy.

    TStanley
    --------
    There's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us
    about this script for Hamlet they've worked out
    -- Douglas Adams/Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by djw (Vicar) on Jul 22, 2001 at 19:08 UTC
    Linux is Linux is Linux is Linux....

    My suggestion is to try a few different systems to see what you like. The major differences between the different distrobutions are the install and package management.

    Red Hat and most Red Hat variants (like Mandrake) have really slick installs and ok package management. But Debian by far has the most slick system with dselect and apt-get.

    If you are a bit of a purist I would also suggest running slackware - they just released a new version too!

    At the end of the day you have to decide on your own what you like. For myself I've tried Caldera, Slackware, Mandrake, Red Hat, and Debian. I am now a loyal Debian user - but that doesn't mean everyone should be because I or someone else says so....you have to figure that out for yourself.

    Thanks,
    djw
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Which Perl version is BSD based on?
by princepawn (Parson) on Jul 22, 2001 at 03:12 UTC
    Isn't BSD still based on Perl 5.005? The stable release of Perl is the 5.6 branch. Most Linux distros have made the move in step with Perl, but BSD is still behind if I'm not mistaken.
[reply]
      princepawn - BSD is a bit behind, but OpenBSD 2.7 will upgrade and include Perl 5.6... according to cpan - ports

      I'm doing something similar to you Maclair, but I've been playing with FreeBSD - the server has a firewall/DNS/sendmail/apache. It's pretty much perfect for what I'm doing. But, since you asked about linux distrib - I'd listen to the monks above. My own experiences with linux have been limited to RH.

      p.s. if you are interested in BSD (FreeBSD for that matter) - check out FreeBSD.org and The FreeBSD Diary - both are excellent resources.
[reply]
      In fact OpenBSD 2.9 HAS UPGRADED and provides Perl 5.6.0 with 2 patches :
      • SUIDMAIL fixes for suidperl security
      • CHANGE6214 fixes a coredump in @DB::args

      This is not the latest version, but it's far from an old one...
      Anyway OpenBSD as a general rule prefer to use stable/secure versions rather than brand new ones (whatever the prog). It doesn't mean they use old versions,
      but rather versions that are known to be secure/stable (through experience/audit...)

      "Only Bad Coders Code Badly In Perl" (OBC2BIP)
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Re: Recommendatins on a Linux Distribution
by spudzeppelin (Pilgrim) on Jul 23, 2001 at 21:46 UTC

    I'll make two observations:

    • MY distribution of choice is slackware, but I've been using it for five years. YMMV. Slackware 8.0 is out, and it's great, IMO.
    • In Dallas, there are a number of Linux resources. DFWUUG (Unix users' group) meets the first Thursday of every month at SGI on the LBJ. NTLUG (Linux users' group) meets the third Saturday of every month at Nokia in Las Colinas. And the DFW.pm group meets (typically) one night during the last week of each month at the Londoner in Addison (check the mailing list, dfw-pm@hex.net, for exact time/location; our technical meetings are held elsewhere). Both DFWUUG and NTLUG often have either a giveaway or raffle involving a Linux distro. If you're obsessed with actually buying a distro on CD (as opposed to either giveaway product or just downloading and burning the ISO image), the deepest Linux software department I've found in the Metroplex is Micro Center at Spring Valley and 75 in Richardson. Other chains (Fry's and Borders, in particular) can be good sources as well, depending on the exact title you're looking for.

    Spud Zeppelin * spud@spudzeppelin.com

[reply]
      I am looking for someone to help me convert my computer from Windows to Linux. Please contact me if you are interested at john@medaille.com
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